[WIP] The Wastelands

[Dominus_Noctis]

Looks very interesting

You mentioned a campaign - have you considered using Megadroid's MMM project?

 

[Terra_Inc]

Looks very interesting

You mentioned a campaign - have you considered using Megadroid's MMM project?

I never heard of that one. What does it do?

 

[CABAL]

It let's you make scripts for missions rather than just working around the script in existing missions.

 

[Terra_Inc]

It let's you make scripts for missions rather than just working around the script in existing missions.

That would be super-cool. Now that I think of it, TUN mentioned a campaign for Sigma using some sort of mission maker. That is FlOps-based, though... Does it also work for stock A2 or only for FlOps?

 

[CABAL]

FO still uses the A2 mission code system, which is a duplicate of the A1 mission code system, so MMM should work with all versions of Armada.

 

[Terra_Inc]

Would be awesome if I could do a full-blown campaign for Wastelands! Does it allow you to set objectives and stuff? Dude, that would make this mod go to warp!
Where can I get this thing? And are there tutorials? And is it C/C++ or Java based?

That interests the heck out of me. For years, we've been told that the Single Player Campaign can only be modded very carefully and not replaced at all. If this would work, it would completely change the way we look at A2.

 

[CABAL]

It's actually Lua based. It has a forum somewhere with all the documentation and some tutorials Try Googling it since I can't post a link to it.

 

[Dominus_Noctis]

The relevant link can be found on the homepage of the guide under sister sites if you are interested

It'll let you set everything that the A2 original campaigns could do and even more. There are some issues with cinematics right now, but those will be worked out soon too I believe . And yup, it was originally designed for A2 vanilla, so it'll work for both

There is an example of what it can do on the FO forums; you can find it in the modding section called "MMM: Premonitions" (recreating the first A1 mission).

 

[Terra_Inc]

This morning I have played a custom single player mission for A2.

When I joined the community, nobody would have believed me if I said that. And even today, most people would call me a liar. But it is true. Thanks, people, for pointing me in the direction of MMM. I will definitely try to make a campaign for Wastelands!

 

[Dominus_Noctis]

Very nice . TUN is working on a campaign too - so if you can't figure out something from Megadroid's tutorials, you could always contact TUN to ask I think

 

[Terra_Inc]

I have begun to work my way into MMM and it is positively fascinating. Actually, it is much easier than I expected. The necessary programming is rather straightforward, and the quality of the framework is high.

Right now it isn't of much use, since the whole ODF structure doesn't exist yet. But when it does (and when I've found out how the AIPs work ), I plan to make something with MMM. ATM I'm playing around with it in a copy of stock and finding out what I can do with it.

 

[Atlantis]

I present you: The Eagle class cruiser. Remastered by Jetfreak himself...

Crediting the person who added a few extras to the texture, and not the person who made the entire model and everything else of the texture?

I've had enough of this. I am *this* close to withdrawing all permissions for all of my mods and ships.

EDIT: Apologies for the over-reaction, I just get this a LOT with my stuff.

 

[Terra_Inc]

Crediting the person who added a few extras to the texture, and not the person who made the entire model and everything else of the texture?

I've had enough of this. I am *this* close to withdrawing all permissions for all of my mods and ships.

EDIT: Apologies for the over-reaction, I just get this a LOT with my stuff.

Uh, I apologize for the misunderstanding. StarfleetKid told me to wait with the permission-asking until I actually HAVE some work done. I did not intend to violate anyone's rights, I just want to show people what I want to do with their work before asking them for permission.

 

[Terra_Inc]

This is not looking good... I haven't done more mod work yet than posting a few screenshots of ships. And I'm already under fire...

Maybe I'm not the right person to do this. I've been part of the A2 community for almost two years now... but it doesn't seem like I learned anything. I have a bad feeling about this...

 

[Dominus_Noctis]

Every project has its ups and downs - don't let yourself get discouraged so easily mate, I'm sure things will work out

 

[ISS_Enterprise_D]

Don't take it all too hard Terra. Like Dom said, things hit highs and low all the times for projects of any sort, especially big mods, as I've come to notice.

Just look at me and the MSFC Fleet project. I'm STILL working on inspiration for shots, improving technique, and STILL working on specific shots for the one big compliation shot. I started this thing months ago, and I have many a time hit low points.

But when I finally accomplish some new work and shots, and I post them up here, I feel great for the sense of achievement that I have, seeing how my hard work and time has paid off.

If the work feels like too much of a burden to accomplish at any one time, then just simply take a break. I've learned the hard way that if you don't take necessary breaks, you're gonna eventually, rage-quit, snap, or demolish your computer. Thankfully, I never did the latter.

Anyway, keep up the great work man! I can't wait to see how this continues to progress!

 

[Majestic]

I agree, we all have our ups and downs, I am going through a real rough patch at the moment with a couple of issues on several fronts.

Modding is also like this, look at Yesteryears, I only have a very early alpha working for one race and the mod was started in September 2007. If need be I have found taking a break helps and a TC you can't do quickly. With Yesteryears it took me like a month to get something working. I found once you get the models in and a structure that is organised things start to fall in together.

If you'll like PM me and I can show you what I have done for Yesteryears. I think it works rather well and one of the sole reasons why it has progressed so far in the past 2 months, minus these last two weeks naturally.

But stick with it, Wastelands I am looking forward to and I too plan do do a campaign with the MMM mod/tools. So perhaps down the track we can help each other out.

 

[thunderfoot]

Terra, the creativity part is always the easy part of modding. When using another's ships/weapons/ideas, it is difficult to make sure all the permissions are in place prior to releasing anything at all. If you ask for permissions first before ever starting anything at all, it seems to go much easier for all concerned.

As to being discouraged about what you've done so far, why be this way? You've come up with a novel concept which no one else has ever done. Since no one has done this before there really isn't a guideline to follow. "Boldly going where none have gone before", has its own set of frustrations. When they get to be a little too much, it is long past time to go do something else for awhile. You'd be unusual if something like this did not occur.

Lastly, a rather pointed question: Are you doing this mod for yourself or are you doing it for others' approval?

Not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers here at all. Certainly not trying to cause you to drop the project. But the most successful A2 mods available anywhere were made by their creators for their creators. As long as you are interested in the Wastelands then it is a viable project which will be completed and released when you are good and ready to do so. Which will be after you've thoroughly enjoyed using it. If your interest in the Wastelands comes from a desire to share with others only, it will not be as fun for you to work on. Despite all the positive feedback you've received about it, one disgruntled troll somewhere will not like it. Further this troll will go out of his/her/its way to make their discontent publicly known as far as possible to as many as possible. And this will leave a sour taste all over what is an intriguing idea which, quite frankly, I am a little envious I did not think of. This will take what is something you enjoy and love doing right down to the level of drudge work which you will begin to hate.

Short version, which you've heard before: Do this mod for yourself and worry not about when, how, or even if you finish it. Get it to the point where you enjoy it and use it. However long this takes is however long it takes. And when you are happy with what you've done, then release it to the rest of us.

 

[Terra_Inc]

Thanks for your friendly words. Wastelands will continue to be worked on, I can't wait for the first play-through with the full... ahem... 'cast'.

Several things popped up. I have some great explosion artwork, but I can't get rid of the shockwaves. Project Orange has made them look better, but I'm still not sure if I shouldn't restrict them somehow... so you don't blow up a scout and get a shockwave that could obliterate a whole planet. (heeey... maybe THAT was what happened in ST09? Someone was playing stock A2!)
I know that many mods completely remove them, but I couldn't figure out how. Can someone help me out?

Also, the dreaded planets... I decided to completely get rid of them, at least of the colonizing part. It isn't called the Wastelands for nothing, huh? Crew will be recruited via stations. Which brings me to my question, does anybody know if a station needs the starbase classlabel to be able to produce crew?

Only a few green lights remain, then I have everything I need for the player sides.
It's really a shame - I would have loved to include another race as player side, not only the Feds. But the vanishingly low amount of stations that would fit with the mod's concept makes it impossible. I had problems finding enough stations for the Feds. Why, oh why can't I model?

 

[CABAL]

I have no idea about shockwaves, but I do know that stations need the starbase label to produce crew.

 

[Adm_Z]

Would y'all kill me if I said FO used real explosions instead of shock-waves for artillary and ship explosions?

If you are looking for cool Fed like stations, you should look at the maquis race from the future wars mod. They have very cool fed like stations, that are like half built out of asteroids if that is what you are looking for.

 

[Terra_Inc]

If you are looking for cool Fed like stations, you should look at the maquis race from the future wars mod. They have very cool fed like stations, that are like half built out of asteroids if that is what you are looking for.

As far as I know, the FW people are unwilling to have their stuff used by other people. Thanks for the tip, though.

Would y'all kill me if I said FO used real explosions instead of shock-waves for artillary and ship explosions?

I know about the artillery stuff. They did some nice work there. But does stock A2 not have explosion animations for ships going boom?


Which reminds me. Another question, does anybody know where to find a good trading station for the Feds? I have MAPs, but it's not exactly new...

 

[Majestic]

For the shock-waves, make a blank texture and change the shock-wave file to a new one that either doesn't do damage or change the values in the original. They can usually be found in the ship file as in cruise1.odf, destroy.odf, scoutbase.odf etc.

I am also removing planets, and just using background ones like in A1. I found them wholly inadequate and they get in the way and way to small scale wise with ships and stations. I also do believe that the station needs the starbase label for crew. There is also somewhere in the starbase odf file where you can state how many crew can be acquired through the starbase. My memory is a little foggy as it was something I was playing with before my PC crash and well Halo Reach has done well in letting me forget such things.

As for the trading station why not alter the textures to make it look damaged and neglected.

 

[Terra_Inc]

There is good news! I have just completed the mod's basic install. Wastelands is now powered by MU, Project Orange and pretty explosions courtesy of Yacuzza. Boom, Boom, Boom. Boom!
Now I can start creating the ODF structure and move in with all of those SODs, TGAs, BMPs, whatevers. Some nice screenshots coming up, I think.

 

[Majestic]

I generally have a base install, which consists of MU, Physics Project, Projects Blue and Orange. Fahres Lights and the list goes on.

I have it all set up in one install, in a separate folder so when I have a new install all I have to do is copy it into a new install and it's instantly working on the new install. It really comes in handy when making a mod. As I do the same when making a mod and every now and then I create a fresh install and put the mod in, just to make sure it works on a new install. Means I don't accidently pick up any ahem unexpected features aka bugs.

I am really looking forward to seeing some screenshots from this mod Terra, I can't wait.

 

[Terra_Inc]

Recently I haven't done much modding work. I've been refining concepts for Wastelands. I have to find the best was to implement my ideas. An important task, and not easy.
Why is that? Well... imagine you're playing FleetOps, or AOW. When you start the game, you'll build a few mining stations. Then you'll expand a little and build another one or maybe two. That is enough, your miners can now provide you with enough resources to fuel the engines of war. This is good, because it lets you concentrate on tactics and strategy. And if your mining station is destroyed, well. You can just build another one while the Warbirds are retaliating. In Wastelands, that is not how things work. You will (hopefully) find yourself trying to get more mining sites, and once you've taken over a mining site from an enemy, you will want to secure and improve it. But how can all of this be possible without ruining the balance? There as several concepts I have worked out to make sure that this will not affect the balance.

Another important decision has been made. Originally, I planned to have the Feds as the only playable race, but offer slight variations to the player. This will not happen. Instead, I have found a way to add a true second player side to the mod. Ladies and Gentlemen, allow me to introduce the Cardassian Union.
Dan's fantastic Cardassian fullrace contains more than enough great designs (original stock remakes as well as retexes of community favorites) and Achilles' work nicely complements that. I am quite confident that I will be able to secure the necessary permissions. A true alternative to the Feds will definitely improve the mod, and the Cardassians are just perfect for Wastelands.
What will happen to the old idea of the mining companies? They are still there. Intersolar and others will be part of the campaign, a quite important part, I may add.

So, how does the mod progress? The fed side is almost 100% ready for implementation. It already "exists on paper". Permissions are all there (except for one, but that tiny part of the mod isn't completely worked out yet). Various small texture edits, some ODF work... and then it's screenshot time again. So, stay tuned.

 

[Majestic]

That sounds really good indeed, if you like you are welcome to use anything I have or will be releasing in the future including the COE Cardassians.

The Cardassians will make a great addition to this mod, as you say they are perfect for it.

Might I also suggest that if you do the Romulans, use the ship models that I and Thunderfoot have released here, the older designs would work in great.

 

[Terra_Inc]

That sounds really good indeed, if you like you are welcome to use anything I have or will be releasing in the future including the COE Cardassians.

The Cardassians will make a great addition to this mod, as you say they are perfect for it.

Might I also suggest that if you do the Romulans, use the ship models that I and Thunderfoot have released here, the older designs would work in great.

With all of the great work available here, the Wastelands experience of MSFC members will be waay cooler.

I look forward to working on the Cardies. I am somewhat excited about being able to create a true Cardassian campaign, although that has lower priority than the actual mod. I've been reading through the (incomplete) MMM documentation (we CS guys can't stop calling it the API ) and it will make some really interesting things possible. I especially look forward to chasing Klinkers, destroying their ships and annihilating their stations. An act of vengeance for the Klingon propaganda piece that is the stock A2 campaign. The wrath of the... sorry, what was I talking about? Ah yes, Wastelands.

I don't know about the Romulans yet. I would love to add them as a playable side, but there is almost no station material available. Aad has done some great versions of the stock Romulan ships, and AOW's Romulan side is quite impressive, too. Of course, the Romulans are hanging out in the Wastelands, but right now they're only hanging out in Starbases and mining stations. They just don't have something like Dan's Cardie fullrace. And even if there was, I'm not sure if it would fit into the mod. Their hi-tech probably wouldn't fit into the (for the 24th century) lo-tech setting of Wastelands.
But nothing is decided yet. I have just started, and things can still change.

 

[Dominus_Noctis]

Could always include the Breen - they were known for having outposts in weird sectors

 

[Majestic]

Just throwing ideas and options at you. I am sure whatever you decide will be just right and fun to play.