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Discovery Series

Discussion in 'Star Trek' started by CABAL, 24 Sep 2017.

  1. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    Don't forget that Discovery premiers Sunday night. I'll watch the pilot to see what I think, but I'm going to hold off until the season is over and watch it all at once then, partially to save money.
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  2. Majestic

    Majestic MSFC's Resident Klingon Staff Member Administrator

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    Im not sure Aus Netflex is getting it at the same time as CBS. At least they haven't advertised it on Netflex AU yet with is unusual.
  3. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    From back in June, but it looks like it's going to be Monday for you. It's probably synced with us and you're just way ahead of everyone, time zone wise.
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  4. Majestic

    Majestic MSFC's Resident Klingon Staff Member Administrator

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    Thanks mate.
    Yeah we found a time tunnel years ago and Quantum leaped into the future. :lol2:
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  5. Jetfreak

    Jetfreak Proudly Pinoy Community Member Seraphim Build Team

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  6. Rifraf

    Rifraf I know just enough to be a danger to myself Community Member

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    Always loved the ill fated Valkyrie. I personally don't care for the new Discovery though. To me it doesn't feel original. Looks like a Galor from bow and stern.
  7. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    It's based on rejected TMP or Phase II concept art. That can work out (just look at how well Star Wars has been using rejected designs lately), but in this case I feel like it was rejected for good reason.
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  8. SciFiFan

    SciFiFan We lurk in the shadows Staff Member Forum Moderator

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    I am going to watch and try to be objective about the show but I do not like the ship design.
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  9. Majestic

    Majestic MSFC's Resident Klingon Staff Member Administrator

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    To me the Discovery doesn't fit in the era. Personally they should've tried to make a ship design closer to the Constitution like what Axanar did with the Ares.

    While I think the show will be a good sci-fi series it'll make a poor Trek series. Even the creators think that the series won't last long after the fan outrage when they started to release trailers and they apparently have a back up plan in the mod of another Trek project that is going to be a different series. No news on that yet I think they're going to wait to see how the reviews of the series go etc.

    I'll watch it as I don't have to pay anything more for it as it's on AU Netflix. However I wouldn't pay for it like America has to with the CBS Streaming service. The Klingons don't look like Klingons which nerks me a bit.
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  10. SciFiFan

    SciFiFan We lurk in the shadows Staff Member Forum Moderator

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    Well, I just got done watching the pilot episode. All in all, I liked it. I still dislike the aesthetics of the show (in particular, the Klingons). Unfortunately, I will not be able to watch any more as I wont pay for CBS All Access for just one show. If another avenue opens for me then I will watch as see.

    As for their back up plan, I did read an article on that. They will turn this new series into an "Anthology" series and tell different stories from different eras from the franchise.
  11. Hellkite

    Hellkite Lord of Death Staff Member Administrator Seraphim Build Team Star Fighter

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    Well I'm not impressed Discovery it on the same page as STO in my book a complete waste and dose not deserve the name Star trek .
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  12. Majestic

    Majestic MSFC's Resident Klingon Staff Member Administrator

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    I agree Hellkite, it won't last more than a season.
    They said they were respecting cannon but they didn't respect it with the Klingons they should've made them another species. The Klingons looked or felt nothing like the Klingons over the past 60 years of Trek.
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  13. Hellkite

    Hellkite Lord of Death Staff Member Administrator Seraphim Build Team Star Fighter

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    The Orville is more True to Star trek than Discovery

    case in point orville


    .​
  14. SciFiFan

    SciFiFan We lurk in the shadows Staff Member Forum Moderator

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    On a side note, I would love to see the Federation ships (save for the Discovery itself) given the ENT/TOS treatment. When the Admiral's ship USS Europa warped in, I got a Miranda class vibe from it.
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  15. Majestic

    Majestic MSFC's Resident Klingon Staff Member Administrator

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    Yes, while I can forgive the look of the Federation ships and their interiors the Klingons is what I just couldn't accept as being Klingons. They were just too different.

    The Federation ships would've been really great with TOS/ENT type nacelles and or bussard collectors.
  16. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    It's hard to say with only the first half of the pilot being free, but I'm filing this under 'has potential' for now. Not enough potential to pay for it, but enough to do the free trial and binge it after the season is over. Still dislike the art direction; everything is just so dark and the Klingon designs are not much better when watching than they felt in the trailers. Lore adherence is around 50-50, I'd say. Real-time long-distance holographic communication shouldn't be around yet since it was new in DS9, and the Klingon cloaking device is the second time the entire premise of Balance of Terror has been casually voided, but they seem to have a good grasp on Klingon culture, considering that T'Kuvma's group is part of an unorthodox sect. Still annoyed with the lack of hair on Klingons, but they can backtrack on that one if they say only T'Kuvma's group is like that because they shave or something.

    Anyway, anyone think Voq, the albino Klingon, could be The Albino from DS9's Blood Oath?

    Or in a lighter shade of paint. Seriously, everything is just so dark that it's ridiculous.
  17. SciFiFan

    SciFiFan We lurk in the shadows Staff Member Forum Moderator

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    I did get to watch the second episode and I will say this about the Klingon ship having cloak.

    Voq said that T'Kuvma was able to find a way to hide his ships which seemed to throw the other leaders off guard. T'Kuvma then said "If there is doubt that I can hide my ship." then proceeds to ram one of his cloaked ships into the Europa. Perhaps the method of his cloak died with him but the success of it prompted the Klingons to actively seek the tech from the Romulans.
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  18. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    See, I thought the sensor jammer on the beacon thing great as a proto-cloak and an actual cloak wasn't needed. Not for that first episode, anyway. Though I also think T'Kuvma's ship is far too large.
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  19. Archonon

    Archonon Community Member Community Member

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    I caught the first part of the premiere on CBS, like many others. All in all I thought it was pretty good.

    I realize that many fans want Trek to continue to follow the exact same formula that it has had since the 1960s but I do not mind the changes that have been made in terms of tone and narrative since we got the Abrams films; I like the new Trek universe (Films and Discovery) for what they are, good sci-fi and still worthy of the legacy Roddenberry created.

    Production values were pretty good; special effects, acting. set pieces, all were on point. That said I did have some issues with some of the narrative choices I saw.

    The protagonist was too erratic, switching from by the book to curious to erratic and mutinous all in an extremely short time period. She went from being someone that seemed loyal and duty bound to someone that is willing to usurp her comrades because she thinks she is right period. That bravado might work for Kirk as Captain, and even then I don't recall him doing that kind of backstabbing, but as a subordinate she came off as untrustworthy. And her being the ward of Sarek was completely unnecessary. I don't mind her being the ward of a Vulcan but it does not fit that she is somehow Spock's long lost never seen or heard of older stepsister.

    The new Klingon look was jarring but it didn't bother me too much, the aliens of Star Trek always looked too human anyway. I did not like the design of their ships however, they don't appear to follow the general design of Klingon ships, and look nothing like the D-6 from Axanar nor FASA

    The Shenzou looked pretty good, as far as general design but I agree that they needed to have cylindrical warp nacelles with buzzards. The engines looked way more TNG than anything else. I didn't see the Discovery in that episode but I dislike its design very much. I think the only ship I have maybe disliked more than the Discovery is that Manta Enterprise J which was horrible.

    The technology, unforms and ambiance definitely do not work as a Prime universe prequel. The Vulcan education pods, holographic communications, nothing looked like it could be something that leads up into Prime TOS. I would much rather this was established as part of the Alternate Reality universe of the Abrams films were the look of everything, even the Klingons, fits better.

    I don't think that this series would work as an anthology series, given that it is titled after the central starship. There is no way they can make that work with a different crew every season, unless they are doing multi-generational stories with Discovery A-F across a timeframe longer than a century.

    Despite these gripes, I enjoyed the show and would see it. I will not pay for that streaming service however so I'll just buy the blu ray when it comes out.
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  20. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    The school scene implied that her colony was wiped out by Klingons when she was a kid, so she probably has some trauma there. Being raised by Vulcans probably didn't help her to work through her emotions, either.

    I have to agree. It reeks of bad fan fiction and Mary Sues. They tried to use The Final Frontier as justification for Spock never mentioning her, since he never mentioned his brother, but that's probably the last movie they should be looking to for inspiration.
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  21. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    Apparently the Shenzhou is an older ship of the Walker class, complete with the photonic cannons from ENT. Presumably its age is why it looks the way it does, sort of fitting into the ENT style, somewhat anachronistic as ENT's style is. The Discovery has more of a TOS style, so presumably it's a newer ship.
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  22. Majestic

    Majestic MSFC's Resident Klingon Staff Member Administrator

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    The Shenzhou still looks more advanced that it should be. When I first saw it it felt very post Nemesis in exterior design.

    I just have to put it down to the producers not having a firm grasp on Trek and it's design lineage.
  23. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    Well, ENT had most ships look like they belonged in a post-Nemesis timeframe, so... At least they're portraying the ENT style as older and the TOS style as newer. Maybe Starfleet engineers entered a retro-aesthetic phase some time during late TNG/early DS9? Maybe if you go far enough into the future the simple shapes of TOS come back into style.

    This is all just trying to explain away ENT, though. I'm a fan of the idea that ENT is part of its own timeline that was corrupted by the Temporal Cold War with the original timeline featuring some of the core 'beats' of the series, but with a very different aesthetic and everything TCW related excised. For instance, maybe the 'original' NX-01 also encountered a Romulan minefield, but the Birds of Prey guarding it looked more like the ones in TOS and didn't have cloaks.

    On a different track, I found that concept art the Discovery is based on. Apparently it was from the first movie attempt, Planet of the Titans.
  24. Archonon

    Archonon Community Member Community Member

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    Isn't the Discovery older than the Shenzhou? The Discovery is NCC-1031 and the Shenzhou is NCC-1226, doesn't that mean that the Shenzhou was built after the Discovery? Or did they change the Discovery's registry number to something higher?

    The overall design of the Shenzhou is very Enterprise-y the engines though just completely throw that away by being rectangular. Even the JJ-Prise and the Franklin had cylindrical warp nacelles and buzzards. The Shenzhou's engines frankly look like the Akira's, which is the overall inspiration for the ship as far as I can see.

    Outside the engines though, I very much like the Walker Class and sort of wish THAT was the design for the Discovery, if there was only the two to choose from.

    I see everything post-Voyager as its own parallel universe, a lot of what was shown on Enterprise conflicts with what was mentioned of Earth history in TOS anyway. So for me, the universes are:
    Prime: TOS, TMP, TNG, DS9, VOY
    AR: ENT, DISC, KEL
    Misc: Mirror, Borg conquered everything, etc.

    I enjoy the everything prequel-y much more that way. Their tones match better and since they reference each other, I feel it works for me. I know that Enterprise's finale had Riker and Troi in it pointing towards the Prime universe, but that episode was so damn awful that honestly I just chalk it up to a lousy and innacurate holodeck recreation from incomplete records. Outside of the scene of the signing of the UFP's charter, just UGH. For me Enterprise ends after Terra Nova. I also secretly pretend Paxton is the direct ancestor of Alexander Marcus from ST: Into Darkness. Lol.
  25. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    According to this article, the Discovery is supposed to be newer. Apparently, Georgiou also explicitly calls the Shenzhou old with outdated tech in the second episode. I'm guessing the Discovery's registry in the teaser was a placeholder. If someone can spot it in the intro, though, that would be great.

    Edit: Saw an interesting proposal for why DSC Klingons are bald. They're trying to retcon them to have always been bald, of course, but there's a strong backlash there, so I'm thinking they may try to backpedal there while making season 2. They already seem to be using Fuller as a scapegoat for the design change. Anyway, the proposal I saw is that they're shaving their heads to show off the ridges so they are easily distinguishable from the augment virus infected Klingons. Basically showing off their ridges as a status symbol. If they go with that, they could easily backpedal on their retcon when they do season 2, or potentially later in season 1 depending on how far along they are, and put hair back on some of them.
    Last edited: 28 Sep 2017
  26. Majestic

    Majestic MSFC's Resident Klingon Staff Member Administrator

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    I have always felt that in the VOY episode where they get transported to Earth in 1996 and stop the 29th century Sol system from being destroyed basically helped to create the temporal cold war which in turn created the ENT timeline which Spock from Prime stumbled into as well as Nero which Discovery is part of.

    Your optimistic about a season 2 :lol2: ;)

    To me them being bald isn't an issue it's their ship designs, early cloaks, collecting their dead (after the soul go to Sto'vo'kor their just empty shells) and basically putting them in a sarcophagus on their hull. Plus the make up, why change them, since TMP they have basically remained unchanged in appearance. Why mess with cannon? If they had kept them and their ships being Klingon I could put the sarcophagus junk down to the Klingons we see in the first episodes as a religious sect that are different to the rest of the Empire. But the make up and the whole fleet designs don't feel Klingon to me but an entirely different race. They would've been awesome as a new race of aliens.

    I know I am sounding overly negative here and not open minded but tbh they just messed with too much of one of my favourite species in Trek. Ignored and disrespected canon that has been going for over 50 years. Ever since the 70's the Klingons have remained mostly unchanged. It just annoyed me.

    If I wasn't getting the series for free on Netflix I wouldn't be watching it.

    Sorry about the rant. :lol2:
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  27. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    Not as much as it sounds. It's just that they've made some acknowledgement of fan discontentment and have quickly pinned the blame for everything unpopular on Fuller. Since Fuller isn't involved anymore (and he left early enough that his influence should be minimal anyway) then they either need to own up to it when they do season 2 or fix it. I'm banking on them fixing at least some of it, mostly the Klingon aesthetic since that's where the biggest backlash is.

    The ship design is a pretty serious problem. They should be using D7s and such, but we haven't seen a single one. There hasn't even been an ENT ship, like the D5. And none of the ships look anything like what we've seen before.

    Them being incapable of growing hair is actually a problem for lore. Remember, Kahless forged the first bat'leth in lava from a lock of his own hair. How could he do that if he couldn't grow hair?

    T'Kuvma keeping the bodies doesn't bug me. He's pretty clearly a fanatic of some sort. I'd guess that he follows his own cultish variant of the mainstream Klingon faith, which I actually like since I feel monocultures have too much of a presence in Trek.

    The makeup does bug me quite a bit. I actually don't have a problem with it being changed a bit, but I think they went too far. And it's not like Klingon makeup has stayed totally consistent since the first redesign was introduced. Worf is great to use to show the evolution of the makeup. Compare his TNG season 1 appearance with his late DS9 appearance. He's clearly the same character, but the later makeup has a lot more detail and covers more of his face. A similar example is the TOS Andorian makeup and the ENT Andorian makeup. Clearly the same species, but there's been a bit of a redesign and additional detail aided partially by advances in technology. Similarly, the change to D'Argo's makeup in Farscape and the change to G'Kar's makeup in B5. In both cases it's clearly the same character, but updated and refined. So what would be a makeup change to the Klingons similar to the one from season 1 of TNG to the last season of DS9? Probably going to this guy from Into Darkness. Also keep in mind that these guys aren't universally bald since the background guys have hair under their helmets. Ultimately it's mostly a refinement of what had already been done where the DSC design was made from scratch. Also note that it allows for much more expression than what we got in DSC since it's not so heavy and thick.
  28. TUB_Husker

    TUB_Husker Community Member Community Member

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    I found the start rather weak. This boring speaking of the Klingons, was terrible. I don' know what I hear, Klingon language or something new? Can it be, that Tk'kmuwa, whatever, all scenes mumbled,
    it sounds funny. And than this stupid Motivation, I'm a Outsider and I save the Universe, Klingons, etc., all known Khaleesi, nothing new.
    The Designs of Starfleet and Klingons are so terrible in my eyes, why not a hybridization of ENT and TOS and than this No-(kli)gonen. And WTF LENS FLARES
    But I like the Uniforms, Tricorders etc., nice Retro Designs.

    In my opinion is Prime Ent, TOS, TMP, TNG, DS9, VOY, After a few Trek Series with this and this temporal paradoxon is the Timeline spaghettificated. It's senseless in this case build up Theories to explain canon breaches.
  29. SciFiFan

    SciFiFan We lurk in the shadows Staff Member Forum Moderator

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    This discussion regarding ship and registry lineage is interesting and all but, can we please get back to the topic at hand which is the Discovery Series.

    I watched Episode 3. You finally get a good look into the Discovery herself. The ship was specifically designated as a science ship. I am actually somewhat ok with the design though I feel they set the timeline too close to TOS. I think this show should have been 50 years before, not 10. As for the episode itself, it wasn't that bad. Get a bit more science than action you got in Ep1 and 2. If they get a fair balance as they did in DS9 then the show as a stand alone will be good. I am just afraid they are going to shoe horn this show where it don't belong.
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  30. Majestic

    Majestic MSFC's Resident Klingon Staff Member Administrator

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    Registry posts moved to their own thread, feel free to continue that discussion over there everyone. :)
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