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Discovery Series

Discussion in 'Star Trek' started by CABAL, 24 Sep 2017.

  1. Majestic

    Majestic Life's a garden. Dig it! Staff Member Administrator

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    I got to see the episode today it was an improvement over episodes 1 and 2. Tbh my only gripe was the Klingons again, though they didn't appear long.
    I preferred the change, and as for the ship I can get used to it tbh. Maybe because I'm not a big Starfleet/Federation fan always preferring the other races and their designs.

    I agree 10 years is way too close if it was set in the 2200's rather than the 2250's it would've been set better.
  2. Archonon

    Archonon Community Member Community Member

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    I can't really get over the design of the ships; not in my dislike for them, I can get over that, but how inconsistent they are to the supposed technology of the time. The Constitution Class first entered service in the 2240s which means that they are in full blown operation during the events of STD. Even the Enterprise herself should be under the command of Robert April by this point. Neither the Discovery nor the Walker class look like they belong in that universe to me.

    I understand that modern audiences would consider the sets and effects cheesy if they copied the TOS aesthetic of the 1960s like they did in DS9's tribble episode, but then again they pulled it off and that would have been much more convincing to allege that this is the Prime universe.

    Outside that snafu, I just hope the series keeps getting better. Always great to see Jason Isaacs, already miss Yeoh.
  3. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    Pike, actually. This is two years after The Cage.
  4. SciFiFan

    SciFiFan We lurk in the shadows Staff Member Forum Moderator

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    If they show off a Constitution with the same design but updated to fit the new aesthetics to see how it all ties together might help some. I don't see it happening but, you never can tell.
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  5. Archonon

    Archonon Community Member Community Member

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    So they have the uniforms all wrong as well then? Great. Man I wish they would just put Discovery in its own reality, it would make it a lot more palatable for me.

    So definitely the ships should be going around looking like Connies. Connies should be running around and should have been part of the battle at binary stars.

    Hell, at this point Kirk should be a Lieutenant in some ship.

    Also, I presume that this Klingon conflict is not supposed to be the 4 Years war correct? Given that the war has been established in canon to have occurred between 2247-2250 and the battle at Axanar having been in 2251 (Which wasn't against the Klingons anyway).
  6. Majestic

    Majestic Life's a garden. Dig it! Staff Member Administrator

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    Shows how little respect they have for canon. I could understand if they ignored Enterprise because of the inconsistencies and TCW arc causing issues but to ignore TOS canon is another thing entirely.

    When you make a prequel there is a lot you have to conform to and it's a lot harder than a sequel series. They should've just done a post-Voyager/Nemesis series would've given them the creative freedom they so clearly wanted.

    I am just taking it as a sci-fi series and ignoring the Trek, only way I can watch it tbh. I don't see it making it to a season 2 with the amount of inconsistencies they have put into the show and the fan response I see so many youtube videos about how bad STD is coming up on my feed.
  7. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    The Discovery's dedication plaque is visible in this new image. Not much to see, but apparently the ship is of the Crossfield-class.
  8. Jetfreak

    Jetfreak Proudly Pinoy Community Member Seraphim Build Team

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    So after dodging many spoilers and info nuggets across the internets, I was able to catch up with the first two episodes so far...

    I'm still pretty overwhelmed to be honest. Hard to believe DSC is the first new series since ENT, and the influence of the JJverse era definitely shows. I guess my suspicions were right for the most part since they're aesthetically ignoring TOS in favor of modern touches with the production. Which is totally fine and understandable with the budgets and such. I can see some similarities to the USS Kelvin sets too. I'm still trying to get used to Micheal as the name of the girl's character. And that Sarek stuff sure felt fan-servicy in all the wrong places.

    But the Klingons totally got me on the fence man. I thought the redesign of the make up and costumes were ok (No hair too?). But the ship designs are all over the place! At least the USS Shenzo had the virtue of looking like the NX here and there.

    Hoping to catch up with the later eps too, boy this is gonna be a rough ride...

    A few more observations:
    - I felt the CGI external scenes was a bit overdone in some places, too over-saturated maybe?
    - Intro was a bit meh, but I like the blueprint-like call back to the ENT stuff.
    - Saru was a standout character definitely.
    - Never expected T'kuvma to bite the dust, whoopsie!
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  9. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    I think they're too exaggerated from the Into Darkness design, but some hair would really help. Of course, the pre-release stuff made it sound like they were trying to retcon hair out of the species entirely, which just doesn't make any sense with Kahless having forged the first bat'leth from a lock of his own hair.
  10. SciFiFan

    SciFiFan We lurk in the shadows Staff Member Forum Moderator

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    Just got done watching episode 4. Seems to be spiraling in a direction that takes it further from core Trek. There are some elements that I like a some I don't. I will continue to watch and see where it goes. One theory I had was confirmed though. I will not elaborate until more of y'all have had time to watch.
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  11. Majestic

    Majestic Life's a garden. Dig it! Staff Member Administrator

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    I watched the episode last night and felt the same.

    Just seeing where it goes, but so far I'd say I'd rather what Trek in the 90's over STD. Still there is always room for improvement.
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  12. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    Despite the first two episodes, which I feel like really should have been as single hour-long episode, and the aesthetic issues, I feel like it's going pretty well for a first season, remembering that every Trek since TNG has had a bad first season. Ultimately, the way it's been going, I think we'll need to have the full season to make any real judgments.

    This next bit's a bit more spoilery since it concerns this latest episode, but I had a thought about Voq.

    I think Voq is The Albino from the DS9 episode Blood Oath. This started out as one of those out-there ideas, but the more I thought about it the more it made sense, especially with something from Butcher's Knife. So how do we get from the idealistic and principled Voq to the brutal child-killing Albino? Quite easily, actually.

    Let's start with what we know about The Albino. We know he's an outlaw of ambiguous species, but implied to be Klingon. We also know he killed the firstborn sons of Kor, Kang, and Koloth. If he is Klingon, then judging by his makeup he's probably about the same age as the trio. This is where it gets interesting. Kang's son was named Dax, after Curzon Dax. The trio met Curzon when negotiating the Khitomer Accords. This means that The Albino killed their sons after they created an alliance with the Federation.

    Now let's go to Voq. Voq is fanatically loyal to T'Kuvma's credo of 'remain Klingon' and is similarly fanatically against the idea of peace with the Federation, to the point of refusing to salvage supplies from abandoned Starfleet ships. Voq now also has a grudge against Kol, who has been confirmed to represent House Kor in the Council. I assume that Kol is likely Kor's younger brother and they're set up like how Worf and Kurn were when their House was restored to the Council. Kol defeated Voq not through combat, but through deception and bribery, an extremely dishonorable method by Klingon standards.

    Now let's connect the two. In Klingon culture, the sins of the father pass to the son. Additionally, crimes committed by one dishonor their entire House, not just their descendants. In Voq's mind, Kor may well be equally guilty of Kol's transgressions as his brother and head of the House, providing early conflict between the two. Now let's assume that Voq doesn't win and never becomes the Chancellor of the Empire. Not exactly a stretch. Having lost, he would have become an outlaw and gone to ground. Decades later, he learns about the Khitomer Conference, and how his old enemy Kor, along with Kang and Koloth, are negotiating a peace with the Federation. This is exactly the thing that T'Kuvma was worried about and adds to the list of dishonorable actions Voq attributes to Kor. They and their Houses are now traitors. Since their children are considered equally guilty, and they're easier to kill, that's who Voq targets.

    I'm sure at least one of you is thinking, "Surely there must be more than one albino Klingon out there?" I thought about that and absolutely, there must be more albino Klingons somewhere. However, there are two points in my favor here. First, in Voq's introduction, it's implied that albinos, and possibly others considered deformed, are often killed at birth. Second, Voq and The Albino are about the same age. So, in a society that kills albinos in infancy, the odds of there being two separate prominent albinos born at roughly the same time are slim, at best.

    And that's it. That's how I think Voq will become The Albino.
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  13. Jetfreak

    Jetfreak Proudly Pinoy Community Member Seraphim Build Team

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    I'm really confused why Disco is trying so hard to be edgy when it isn't even necessary. Does Trek always need to play catch up? Color me unimpressed so far, but I'll keep chugging along.

    The Spore Drive veers towards technobabble as well, I thought the writers were consciously avoiding those things, ah well... I hope its not a retread of Equinox!
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  14. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    I think they're aiming for an explanation of how the Iconian gateways or the Guardian of Forever works, judging by that bit with Burnham in the chamber. I'd put it as slightly better than the usual technobabble, but only slightly.
  15. Hellkite

    Hellkite Lord of Death Staff Member Administrator Seraphim Build Team Star Fighter

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    almost my identical to my option



    in short

    "It's dead Jim"
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  16. kjc733

    kjc733 Wibble Staff Member Forum Moderator Seraphim Build Team

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    OK, so I haven't seen Discovery. All I've seen is a few short clips on Youtube so I can't comment on the storyline but...
    1. Why oh why do producers seem more and more inclined to show Klingons as almost rabid animals? They are a spacefaring race for crying out loud. I miss the TOS Klingons who were intelligent and devious. These ones you can't even tell what emotion they are supposed to have due to the makeup.
    2. The "Spore drive". WHY oh why? And more importantly, why the spinning saucer? I literally groaned and did a face palm when I saw it. Star Trek is meant to be intelligent, this looks like it is meant for a line of kids toys. And I still don't like the Discovery as a design.
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  17. LordChicken

    LordChicken Colonel Sanders Community Member

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    I'm intentionally not watching it until it doesn't matter if I see it. At which point I know I will be disappointed. I have learned waayyy to much about its production and concepts ahead of time and already know I will hate it.

    Edit: I also dislike the designs of the ships.
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  18. kjc733

    kjc733 Wibble Staff Member Forum Moderator Seraphim Build Team

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    I just don't understand why they needed to go so far out of their way to make everything so different. They had a pre-made universe all set up for them, they didn't require any real imagination, they just needed to come up with with a decent storyline.
    Now I can't comment on the storyline as I haven't seen it. But I hope they at least did a good job with that.
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  19. LordChicken

    LordChicken Colonel Sanders Community Member

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    Seriously.

    They spent all that money to stop Axanar. What they could have done is pursue that story since OBVIOUSLY fans wanted to see it. Hell I bet they could have come out looking amazing if they just bought the production out right and did that story as intended but as a TV show instead of a film. But those are what ifs, and for the people that owned Star Trek to actually give a damn.
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  20. Majestic

    Majestic Life's a garden. Dig it! Staff Member Administrator

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    So far the story has been lacking imo.

    I have said this many times to my son. It would've been epic. Feels like this whole show has been rushed and they had no quality control and no real grasp of Star Trek. Hell the JJTrek is better imo and feels more Trek than STD.
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  21. kjc733

    kjc733 Wibble Staff Member Forum Moderator Seraphim Build Team

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    I've just watched the first episode. The first 15 minutes was very Trek (if a bit cheesy in places), the bickering between the three main characters was very TOS. But from the "flyby" it went downhill fast.
    I really like the Shinzou (or however its spelt) but it's just not a TOS era design (sleek, flat, with squares - its post TNG). I like the Captain, I like the Science Officer, and the Commander is a bit too up herself
    and descends into full blown ahab mode way way to quickly to be stable - she needs a straightjacket asap.
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  22. Avon

    Avon The older I get, the more I forget Community Member

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    I'm kind of enjoying it. It's a pretty good sci-fi if you forget about it being trek.
    Although it's hard to do that sometimes. Like in ep 5 I'm just watching now, and they go and call that klingon thing a D7 battlecruiser!
    I nearly spat my coffee across the room
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  23. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    Shenzhou's actually an ENT era ship, if that helps.

    Yeah, that doesn't look anything like a D7. It doesn't even have the basic shape! They also alternately referred to it as a cruiser, a prison ship, and a bird of prey, which doesn't make any sense. The interior was pretty spot-on, though, I'll admit.
  24. Majestic

    Majestic Life's a garden. Dig it! Staff Member Administrator

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    Same here mate. Not to mention those raiders/fighers look nothing like Klingon designs either. Not surprised at this point though.
  25. SciFiFan

    SciFiFan We lurk in the shadows Staff Member Forum Moderator

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    I hadn't seen episode 5 yet but when Kol warped in in ep4, his ship reminded me of the Klingon version of the Dyson Science Destroyer from STO.

    [​IMG]
  26. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    I feel so bad for the Trekyards guys. They've been trying so hard to come up with explanations for the look of all the DSC Klingon stuff and one of them (I forget his name, I haven't been watching long) just looks so defeated by now.
  27. Majestic

    Majestic Life's a garden. Dig it! Staff Member Administrator

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    Unfortunately those guys aren't very knowledgeable I just finish watching a Klingon ship evolution and one of they was trying to say the Neghvar was a refit of the Vorcha and that the Ktinga is a battleship rather than a heavy cruiser so I don't take a lot of stock in what they say. lol
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  28. LordChicken

    LordChicken Colonel Sanders Community Member

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    Diddo.

    One of their videos on the Excelsior they kept calling the Enterprise B a "refit" and not a variant. If it was a refit then all of the Excelsior classes would look like the B, and not like the Excelsior. But yeah...
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  29. Majestic

    Majestic Life's a garden. Dig it! Staff Member Administrator

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    That's exactly right, they're enjoyable to watch and listen too but gotta take what they say with a gain of salt and do your own research.
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  30. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    Like I said, I only just started watching, but they generally seem pretty good, particularly the older guy (seriously can't remember his name). Regarding the Negh'Var, perhaps they were referencing how the model started as a Vor'cha model? Or maybe I'm giving them too much credit, I don't know.

    Off on a bit of a tangent, but this reminds me: we've apparently been using the term 'refit' wrong this whole time, at least in its use as a real-world term. As it turns out, a refit is restoring a ship to like-new or doing very minor upgrades. Something like replacing the warp drive with a newer model or other major changes to the ship's construction or function, like the change to the original Enterprise in TMP or the proposed addition of a secondary hull to the NX-01, would fall under the category of a retrofit.

    The E-B would still be a one-off variant, though.
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