[WIP] DinosaurJR's TOS Ships...

[dinosaurJR]

Hey everyone!

Ive been a bit of a lax modder of late, mainly due to having issues with getting MS3D to register... Very frustrating...

But, Ive been thinking... Aside from this Halo mod the team and I are working on...

A few years back, I started work on a TOS mod for A2 - Star Trek: Beginnings, I called it... Now, its been on pause for a really really long time - years... But Ive been wondering If I shouldnt just pack the ships that I had done and in game (there was a substantial number for the Federation, the Terran Empire and the Klingons) Including Admirals log pics, wire frames and build buttons and release them...?

Its a shame to have them sitting all zipped up on my HDD with no where to go...

It would really take minimal work to get them all ready to go, and although not up to the standard of Fahres, Achilies and others, they do look kinda cool... plus some have never (to my knowledge) been released before... (the majority of the designs are based on the Starfleet Museum designs...

From the top of my head, the unit list looks something like this;

United Federation of Planets;

Spoiler: Federation unit List

Utility Ships -
Ocean Class (Construction Ship)
Sozvezdie Class (Troop Transport / colony Ship)
Ptolmey Class (Mining Freighter)
Aryabhatta Class (Explorer / Survey Ship)

Frigates -
Hermes / Saladin Class
Surya Class

Destroyers -
Avenger Class
Predator Class
Akula Class

Cruisers -
Asia Class
Eclipse Class
Constitution Class
Kestrel Class
Lancaster class
Pytior Velicky Class (Spelling?)
Valley Forge Class
Paris Class

Battle Ships / Dreadnoughts -
Federation class
Seigfreid Class

I have as many for the Terran Empire, and a couple for the Romulans and the Klingons... I just cant remember all the units names... I need to un pack the files and re install them...

Sorry, No pics for now... But soon...

But what do y'all think? should I release them here?

 

[Starfox1701]

I say go for it. My works on hold right now for real life reason I can't go into here.

 

[dinosaurJR]

Yeah - I hate it when the RL gets in the way of modding... or doing anything that you enjoy... But Ive learned that you've got to take the rough with the smooth and all that...

I have my flash drive with me today - so I can upload some pics of the models Im talking about...

Spoiler: Birds of Prey

Spoiler: Federation Battle Group

Spoiler: Klingons

Spoiler: Terran Empire

Spoiler: Admirals Log Pics

Y'all might remember these pics from over at FF, posted a while back - just though I would dig them out so that you could see what I was on about..

 

[thunderfoot]

Nice to see some TOS stuff. Even nicer to see someone doing Terrans. Thanks.

 

[Jetfreak]

Did I also mention that TOS fleet shots are very hard to come by these days? I would love to see these beauties released. You do wonderful renditions of these designs.

 

[Terra_Inc]

Those are great! I would definitely love to get my hands on them.

 

[dinosaurJR]

Thanks guys for the kind words of encouragement - they are much appreciated.

I started to tidy up some of the rougher models in this pack... Starting with the Constitution Class - and, well, I got a little carried away...

It was only meant to be a quick mesh clean up, and a quick once over on the textures... I ended up totally re - texturing and adding almost 1000 polys to the model...

I think It worked out reasonably well though... See for yourselves below...

Spoiler: Re - worked Constitution Class

Im planning on giving the textures a work over again, for the Terran Empire version... I think I will release this and the TE equivalent as a stand alone mod, then release the rest of the TOS models I have, as they are done...

 

[StarBlade]

Looks pretty good, although it's a bit darker in the screenshots than I'd expect. Not that this is a bad thing-- just needs a wash.

 

[Jetfreak]

From the looks of her, she's quite the Connie. Kinda like a battle-hardened combat version with all those extra detailing and bulky hull parts.

 

[dinosaurJR]

Thanks guys!

I was thinking along the lines of a refit, somewhere in between the end of TOS, and the radical TMP re-fit...

So I kept the majority of the TOS features, but added the TMP style hull aztec and the TMP style phaser turrets...

Oh, and while im here... this is the Mirror Universe version...

Spoiler: Mirror Constitution

 

[Adm_Z]

Niccee!, I like it. Buzzards might need a lil' work, but the rest is sound. Very good work man

 

[dinosaurJR]

Yeah - I know what you mean - they look kinda "fake"...

I never could get them to look right... Do you have any suggestions?

 

[Terra_Inc]

Yeah - I know what you mean - they look kinda "fake"...

I never could get them to look right... Do you have any suggestions?

I think it's the yellowish parts that make it look 'fake'. Compare it with FahreS' TOS stuff, his textures have lighter and darker red just like yours, but no yellow. Maybe that is the reason.

 

[Adm_Z]

Hmm, well For one, their color is kinda vibrant. Maybe make them a little more orange and yellow, rather than red and yellow. Then, becides makeing them bigger(let more of the sphere be present) they need more lines. ATM they have like 12, I would say make it alot more than that. like 20 or so. more like this one's

Spoiler: Example

See how FahreS made them almost a half sphere, and has around 15-20 lines. All in all, a great model though. Those are the only things I see that, as you said, look fake.


Edit: Nin'jad. Yeah, as you can see, his larger spheres are solid orange. only his lines are yellow. maybe you could use this approach?

 

[Starfox1701]

Yea get the yellow out of the bussards. Also add a bit of blue to the hull testures. Not much say 10 units. Like this

 

[Majestic]

Looking great mate, I won't up uploading for at least a week but if you do release them I can them becoming a fan favourite, some big quality stuff there.

 

[dinosaurJR]

are these any better??

I like the way Fahres did the Bussard Collectors on his TOS models - but I dont want to do exactly the same... I like to be a little different...

Spoiler: New Collectors...

Oh, and fear not Majestic - I will be releasing them, as a Constitution pack, the original version and the TE version...

 

[Terra_Inc]

are these any better??

I like the way Fahres did the Bussard Collectors on his TOS models - but I dont want to do exactly the same... I like to be a little different...

Spoiler: New Collectors...

Much better. At least IMO.

 

[Jetfreak]

Yeah, they roughly match the ones Fahres has, at least color-wise.

Got any ideas on how you're gonna lightmap them though? I think his bussards have a distinct "fade effect" that you can achieve by making the lightmaps a little blurred on the edges.

 

[Starfox1701]

Much improved man

 

[dinosaurJR]

Thanks again for the encouragement and advice guys, much appreciated!!

As for the light mapping Jet, Im having a wee bit of trouble on that front... It has a basic light map just now (windows nacelles etc...) But as this model is a first for me (Ive really tried to go the extra mile with this model, get things right and not just say "that'l do") I really wanted to go for a full light map, with all the glows plus illumination and fade effects on the Starfleet insignia etc... but...

I separated the alpha map from the texture, using the Assimisoft lightmap flip tool in MS3d, that went well, I then used gradient modifiers to adjust the fade on the areas that should be lighten up, so that they go from white to gray to black... but the Assimisoft lightmap flip tool wont re-integrate the .bmp...

Very irritating - any of you guys have a methof that I could use?? I use PsP9...

 

[thunderfoot]

These are frakkin' awesome! just because of these, 'I'd hug you, but we're both men. And you've got no body.'

 

[Jetfreak]

As for the light mapping Jet, Im having a wee bit of trouble on that front... It has a basic light map just now (windows nacelles etc...) But as this model is a first for me (Ive really tried to go the extra mile with this model, get things right and not just say "that'l do") I really wanted to go for a full light map, with all the glows plus illumination and fade effects on the Starfleet insignia etc... but...

I separated the alpha map from the texture, using the Assimisoft lightmap flip tool in MS3d, that went well, I then used gradient modifiers to adjust the fade on the areas that should be lighten up, so that they go from white to gray to black... but the Assimisoft lightmap flip tool wont re-integrate the .bmp...

Very irritating - any of you guys have a method that I could use?? I use PsP9...

Unfortunately, I'm using a different program (Photoshop CS3) but the process is basically the same. I use gradients too but I can't really help much on the re-integration problem.

 

[Starfox1701]

Open bothe files in your program. Set the texture so you are working in the alpha channel. Select the bmp and copy it. Paste it in the alpha channel and save.

 

[Terra_Inc]

I'm not sure if I understand everything correctly. Did you want to split the texture and the alpha and re-integrate them after editing?
Then there's a tool I can recommend. Go to bcfiles and search for a file named "TGA tool". It allows you to split the texture and edit them separately with your favourite utility. When you're done, you can re-load the edited alpha (or texture) and save them. I did a few minor edits with it and can only recommend it.

 

[dinosaurJR]

These are frakkin' awesome! just because of these, 'I'd hug you, but we're both men. And you've got no body.'

Lol - my favorite Futurama quote!! (i use it often enough too...) Thanks TF!!

Open bothe files in your program. Set the texture so you are working in the alpha channel. Select the bmp and copy it. Paste it in the alpha channel and save.

Starfox1701 - Im not sure I understand... I should open the .tga and then... Load the alpha channel selection? Ok, no probs, but then what? I copy and paste the .bmp (the alpha channel light map) as a what? a new selection? A new layer? Im sorry mate, a wee bit more explanation would be really appreciated!

I know you know what your talking about, but Im afraid you need to be a little patient with those of us that are still getting to grips with the more advanced techniques - I dont know how to work in the Alpha Channel in PSP... I can make selections and then save them to the Alpha Channel, but actually editing the alpha channel, I only know the method whereby you split the texture, edit the .bmp and then re - combine...

little more help?

 

[thunderfoot]

DJ, the Alpha channel is not a separate texture. It is a modification. In essence, alphas tell the game engine this part of the texture is translucent or has a hole in it to allow light to shine through. This is what allows things like viewports and engine grilles to appear as if they are lit up from within. Alphas can be layered just like other texture effects. The sure way to know the Alphas are in place and will work is to check the file size. If you have a 512 x 512 texture with no alphas, the file size will show up as 512Kb. The same texture with an alpha applied, even a one pixel alpha, will show as being 1.0Mb in size.

I use Corel Photo Paint and an ancient version at that. In this one, The tools I use to make alphas are called masks. These tools for making and editing masks are very similar to the tools used for painting. I have brush types and sizes and specialized shapes. I am unsure what the corresponding set of tools is called in PSP. I've never split the Alpha off from the texture and then edited it, I always just edit it directly on the texture. I noticed you referred to the alpha as a .bmp file. The textures for the most part are .tga files. If you split the alphas off from the main texture and then recombine them, don't you have to convert the .bmp file back to .tga format? Or does PSP do this sort of thing automatically for you?

If all I've done is muddy the waters further, I apologize. I really am trying to help. If you're not getting the result you like, bundle the textures up along with some guidance and send them to me. I'll be happy to apply the lightmaps for you.

 

[dinosaurJR]

Hey TF - the Assimisoft Lightmap Flip Tool (ALFT) splits the .tga texture into a pair of .bmp files. One for the colour (yes, colour, Im British, dont ya know??) content of the texture and another (with the file name suffix _i) for the alpha channel. The latter is totally black, with the exception of the selected areas that are in the alpha channel - these are white.

the purpose of the ALFT is to separate out the alpha so that it is easily edited (for those of us that dont have access to first rate texture editing prog.) Then you can re - combine the two parts into a working and fully light-mapped .tga. The problem I have is that it splits the textures fine, I edit the Aplha Channel .bmp, but the ALFT wont re - combine - there seems to be something wrong... The Assimisoft Scaler tool causes MS3D to crash, too... idk whats wrong...

To add an alpha channel (In PSP) - I just select the area I want to add to the Alpha Channel and then save/selection/save to alpha channel - the problem here is that the lights are either on or off - there is no fading effect... That is what I am attempting to do (i have never managed to do this before...)

I might just take you up on that offer, and send the files to you - if you are game??

Oh, and Terra_Inc - Thanks for pointing me to the program you did - however, the textures I am working with are too big... the upper size limit of the program you recommended is (I think) 640X640 pixels (im working at 1024X1024)... But thanks all the same!!

Maybe I should just bite the bullet and buy a quality paint prog... Any recommendations??

 

[thunderfoot]

The feathering effect you are speaking of is one I am not very good with yet either. The feathering of a beam of light and accually being able to see it are effcts caused by the diffusion and defraction of the photons as they pass near or through molecules of air and other things. This can occur only within an atmosphere. But it looks so much nicer on a ship when the spots do exactly to the hull what they did at the last concert or football(Real football, not that stuff Yanks pretend is football!) match we went to.

And yes, DJ, I know you're British. So I understand about "colour", "humour", "Endeavour" and the rest of that lot. Even though I'm a Redneck, one of my fondest memories of my time in Europe was being in the UK. We went round the corner down to the pub for a pint and some chips. And no, I don't mean crisps. I'm speaking of proper British chips. With vinegar and everything.

"Beeer! Mmmmm!"

Actually, I'm kinda an Anglophile. Even though my last name is...Ryan, lol.

 

[Starfox1701]

Starfox1701 - Im not sure I understand... I should open the .tga and then... Load the alpha channel selection? Ok, no probs, but then what? I copy and paste the .bmp (the alpha channel light map) as a what? a new selection? A new layer? Im sorry mate, a wee bit more explanation would be really appreciated!

First off I use Photoshop CS3 but this stuff should also be common to PSP. Ok somewhere in your work area their should be a little panal that has these tags Layers, Channels, and paths. Now I don't know anything about using paths yet but the other settings are very useful. Selecting layers lets you move between the different layers you may have made during the construction of your image. Channels lets you edit at the individual channels of the texture. Select the Channels tag. In the box you should now see. several small versions of you image. They should have the following labels. RGB, Red, Green, Blue, and if the texture has a light map Alpha. If there is no Alpha channel add one. Their should be a button att the bottom of the panal for this. Next select your .bmp of the lightmap and select all of the image and copy. Now go back and select your texture. Double click the Alpha label. Now the texture should look like either a black box for a new Alpha or a black and white image of the the old light map. Paste your new lightmap over whatever image is there. Save the new texture as a TGA file. making sure you save as 32bit not 24bit. I hope this is helpful in pointing you in the right direction.