What is wrong with Star Trek Science

[TUB_Husker]

Ok,
I believe it will a funny discussion. No Fantasy, hard facts.
In the Past I saw Documentation of Star Trek Scince and Tech and I found it very interessting, but today it's hard not to laugh.
Let us discuss about Science in Star Trek.
In the first I start with the Doppler Effect.
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What happen with a Observer on Earth, if he see the Enterprise nearing with Warp.
Through the Doppler Effect he burns, all wavelenghts become shorten and through Warp hard Gamma Radiation. And he burns through a Picture of the Past, because he can only see the reflected light of the Enterprise Hull and all Information (Light, electro magnetical waves e.c.) can only travel through space time with lightspeed.
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I questioned me often, how can a Explosion travel with Warp. Look at Star Trek VII the Supernova, how fast,
if you consider that the light, on a distance of one AE needs 8 minutes. A Supernova Explosion can never reach Warpspeed, because it's Information.
Or you see the Bull....t of Star Trek 2009, the Destruction of Romulus.
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How can a Starfleet Officier detect Spaceships lightyears away. He can't all Information travel maximal with lightspeed.
Or a Spaceship with warp 5 hunts a Ship with Warp 7, you never see the warp 7 ship, its faster then light!
What you mean, what are your discoverd Star Trek Science Errors?

 

[Jetfreak]

Another weakness of Star Trek is the vast array of humanoid looking aliens, not a very diverse set of alien species since if you bundle Klingons, Romulans, Humans etc they all have the same body layout with only xtra bits on the face and etc.

The only outliers I can think is 8472, one of the truly alien-like things we've seen.

 

[Chiletrek]

Hello:
As far as I know, and I can be wrong.... but if I am wrong then I'll be roundhouse-kicked by Chuck Norris! :

Warp speed warps space, so it is not travelling in real-space as it creates a bubble that shifts the ship away into subspace (or hyperspace, both basically the same and proven by mathematics, as far as I know), so the flashes are just the ship coming out back into normal-space... I would not be worried by gamma radiation coming from that, no more than from any other source in the universe... although if the ship comes-out in front of me and I get squished like a bug in a windshield... then yeah, that would be a problem . Also that explains why can ships be detected light-years away, if you can send ships into subspace, you can send information through it too... much more easily.

Also, I know this is far-fetched but, of the bigger franchises, only Star Trek and Stargate gave us a reason of why the thing with all humans or humanoids: Budget! ... but scientifically-wise? Not sure if those explanations we were given onscreen would suffice, but it's better than nothing! *cough*Star Wars*cough*.

 

[TUB_Husker]

Hello:
As far as I know, and I can be wrong.... but if I am wrong then I'll be roundhouse-kicked by Chuck Norris! :

Warp speed warps space, so it is not travelling in real-space as it creates a bubble that shifts the ship away into subspace (or hyperspace, both basically the same and proven by mathematics, as far as I know), so the flashes are just the ship coming out back into normal-space...

Yes, you mean the Alcubierre Drive, but this Drive don't shift the Ship in a subspace. The ship is in the normal known Spacetime. The Drive compress the Spacetime forward the ship and stretch the Spacetime backwards, so the ship travel on a spacetime wave and can reaach warp, because the spacetime can expand, compress, stretch with overlightspeed but all things in spacetime can only travel with lightspeed. But this drive is a mathematical gimmick, because the drive isn't a reell Solution of the Einstein Field Equations.

I would not be worried by gamma radiation coming from that, no more than from any other source in the universe...

Mh, with arguments, which contain warpspeed you really need new Formulas, if you look on the relativistic Doppler Effect you see for a velocity equal lightspeed you divide through zero and the frequency (Energy) become infinite. Accepted this is just like that the ship travel with warp you see photons with infinite Energy (oh Dren), this is like to grill a sausage only worse.

Also that explains why can ships be detected light-years away, if you can send ships into subspace, you can send information through it too... much more easily.

Mh, if a Subspace with this Attributes exist. You can argue with string theory and the extra dimensions, but I hate the string theory with this dimensional "quark", I believe this theory is Dren, because she ignore how physics work, observe, describe, verify and no thing in the string theory you can observe. The only good thing on this theory is you can learn strange mathematic.
Another question, if it give extra dimensions, why should they have another physical laws

 

[Chiletrek]

Hello:
I re-read my first comment and I feel embarrassed! Since I have to redo almost every 3d model I have ever made and I was getting Stargate references that I totally messed up! My apoligies.

Yeah, the Alcubierre Drive is an alternative indeed, but there is the problem of power requirements. But even if doable to make Star Trek-like ships, there is the risk of the warp nacelles emitting radiation on their own, as they form the "bubble" to distort space, that can really harm the ship's crew (that is why Nacelles were always meant to be away from the hulls... *cough* Defiant *cough* ). That radiation has a name but I cannot recall it.

Oh Dren indeed! That is why no physical object can reach lightspeed (space can, objects no... odd, right? But that is expansion of the cosmos) and scientists look for alternative ways. So unless we get those new formulas we cannot jump to conclusions. But thanks about this because that made me have to start looking for info in physics again.

Star Trek VII's sun explosion in the Veridian system is instantaneous only for the sake of drama... you don't want people at cinemas waiting for 8+ minutes. And about the supernova destroying Romulus? Lol...ehhh... I pass .

The universe can have more dimensions, even worse inside black holes thanks to Stephen Hawking's studies, but we have no means to detect those yet unless they somehow manifest, that is why the discovery and first detection of gravity waves is so interesting, even if we have only observed few possible sources... and that studies will for higher-frequency ones first... which does not help us. But this is why is called "science fiction" afterall because we cannot know for sure (as you suspect as much) unless we can observe for real, but it is not an idea taken from nothing and, just like you said why they should have another physical laws, nothing says they do have the exact same laws we have here. So it is all foggy for now, but if scientists are taking this so seriously as means for propulsion, is not for nothing, they likely know some things we don't know yet and will say nothing until they can be sure for real. You know, to prevent hype.

As for your real question: I can see why you would be concerned to see the Enterprise coming out of warp in front of someone... but the superluminal realm is still beyond us (just like how the quantum world was until not that long ago... human history speaking).

 

[TUB_Husker]

"I re-read my first comment and I feel embarrassed! Since I have to redo almost every 3d model I have ever made and I was getting Stargate references that I totally messed up! My apoligies."

#I don't understand

"So it is all foggy for now, but if scientists are taking this so seriously as means for propulsion, is not for nothing, they likely know some things we don't know yet and will say nothing until they can be sure for real. You know, to prevent hype."

#No, results are published. Exclude secret Military Projects e.c.. A serious Scientist give nothing on hypes.

"Oh Dren indeed! That is why no physical object can reach lightspeed (space can, objects no... odd, right? But that is expansion of the cosmos) and scientists look for alternative ways. So unless we get those new formulas we cannot jump to conclusions. But thanks about this because that made me have to start looking for info in physics again."

#If you find a alternative way. Today is the general relativity theory "the theory" to describe the cosmos, Einsteins Field Equation and a out traced Friedmann Equation. If you want a Warpdrive you need a new theory. If you call new, that means not the general relativity theory is wrong, a new theory must have the old theory as a limit.
A few People think the grand unified theory is the thing to describe all, but this is a Illusion. Today after 100 years people research on the general relativity theory.
Other People look on the String Theory, and in this theory, in the first is the needing of more dimensions only mathematical.
The needing of more Dimensions in the the String Theory is because of Particles aren't dots, they are strings and this is difficult, because you know the particle attributes, to match the known attributes with the theory they have intruced more dimensions. But this is a problem, because the string theory isn't verifiable. That means, nobody can say it gives extra dimensions, in the first it's only mathematic, not physic, a gimmick.

I believe the mankind die out and new lifeforms (KI (not selflearning algorithm)) become the new humans. Other than biological Lifeforms they can live 100 or 1000 years and can travel without warp through space for 1000 years, they are timeless.

Another Star Trek Error: Sound in vacuum, urghh.
It gives one scene in Star Trek, without sound in space and this was in the JJTrek from 2009 in the beginning.

 

[Chiletrek]

Do you mean the scene when the Narada attacks the USS Kelvin and that crewmember gets blown into space?

 

[TUB_Husker]

Yes!

 

[TUB_Husker]

Holograms in Star Trek or other SCi Fi Series never work.
Hogramms need a Medium, Reflection, Photons.

In DS9, you see a Hologram on the Defiantbridge, but this is Holodeck Technology (Fantasy), I think and this I don't consider.

In TNG you see over Picards Desk a Hologram. The only way for this is to excite Atoms in Air with a Laser, but you want look in this Laser, because your eyes become destroyed, not practicable.

The other way is with two beams, you split the beam, one of the beam target a object, the other beam not, this is the reference beam. The beam, which light the object, result in a reflected object wave and this you overlay with the other reference beam. This result in Interference, depend on the depth of the Object.
From the Interference You can win the Information of depth (Phase).
The Overlayed beams now traget a fotosensitive film, and you got a holografic Picture with Phaseinformation (Depht Information).

And this you saw:

here you need the Glas-Pyramid, the angular reflection result in the optical Illusion of 3D in the Center.
And this:
This, is the Picard Hologram:

But you need High Watt Lasers for this, very dangerous.

But without Air, fotosensitive Materials e.c. Hologram can't exist.

The only way for ST Holograms in Vacuum e.c. isn't a truely Illustration of Objects in Space.
The Illusion of Holograms are only in the Head of users, through wearing contact lenses (Oculus e.c.), which project pictures on the retina, a kind of augmented reallity.

 

[FuzzyLogic]

Another weakness of Star Trek is the vast array of humanoid looking aliens, not a very diverse set of alien species since if you bundle Klingons, Romulans, Humans etc they all have the same body layout with only xtra bits on the face and etc.

The only outliers I can think is 8472, one of the truly alien-like things we've seen.

8472 also featured some pretty bad CGI, which I think explains why all aliens basically look like Hollywood actors but with crinkly noses and foreheads.

 

[FuzzyLogic]

Star Trek Writer: “The Enterprise has this great thing called the transporter. People can instantly be moved thousands of miles. It’s really awesome.”

Physicist: “It won’t work according to quantum theory. The machine can’t know the location of subatomic particles with absolute precision, and if it could, it would no longer know their speed. It would be impossible to reform a living being, or anything else, in that way. That’s the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Sorry.”

Writer: “But we really need the thing. A bunch of our plots depend on it. And do you have any idea how much it’s going to cost to film the ship landing on every single planet we visit?”

Physicist: “I can’t help you there. Quantum mechanics is a harsh mistress.”

Writer: “Okay, in the future, we develop a machine that takes care of that quantum stuff. How would that work.”

Physicist: “According to everything we know, it can’t.”

Writer: “Well, I say it can, and I’m the one writing the episode. What was that Hindenburg Uncertainty thing?”

Physicist: “Heisenberg.”

Writer: “We’ll just compensate for it. I’ll call it the Heisenberg Compensator. Hey thanks for your help.”

Physicist: “But you can’t just compensate for a basic law of physics!”

Writer: “Look dude, we have a show where we have dozens of aliens species that basically all look like humans but with crinkly foreheads and funny ears. We have ships that travel many times the speed of light, which you said can’t happen either. We have telepaths and beings made of energy and a guy who can shapeshift into anything but can’t make a decent nose. The old show had a planet that developed into ancient Rome by coincidence and implied that the Greek gods were advanced aliens. Is this really the time to say ‘But science says no!’ when we have all this other crap?”

Physicist: “I see your point. That’s Heisenberg, H-E-I-S-E-N-B-E-R-G Compensator”