[WIP] Incursion Class

[Majestic]

Recently I have been working on doing a complete re-do, graphically wise of stock Armada 2. Something that will work with both single player and multiplayer.

In the Federation campaign you invade the Delta Quadrant to wipe out the Borg, well stop them anyway from re-invading the Alpha Quadrant. In one of those Delta Quadrant missions, you use the Incursion class to enter an area of space that Species 8472 has control over.

So I decided to import the stock model and do some drastic remodelling of the class. Here she is as she stands now at 1625 poly's, I am however considering making the bridge smaller and perhaps changing it as I envision a ship designed for convert operations to be bigger than the Defiant class.

Anyway here she is:

Spoiler: Incursion

Spoiler: Incursion

Spoiler: Incursion

All that she needs now is textures.

 

[FahreS]

The incursion is a great ship, so a recreation does make sense!

Your works looks pretty good. some new details that i like
Only the shape of the bussard collectors did i like more on the stock ship. But thats only my opinion

 

[Terra_Inc]

I am however considering making the bridge smaller and perhaps changing it as I envision a ship designed for convert operations to be bigger than the Defiant class.

I've read somewhere that the Incursion was supposed to be a 'heavy refit' of the Defiant. It kind of resembles the Defiant, yeah. But to me, it sounded more like 'we can take a leet ship and make it even more leet!' I am more comfortable with the Incursion being its own class and not a FanBoy refit.

 

[Starfox1701]

Poly count is great man. Before you decide on the bridge scale it against the Defient at its current size. if the sp endsup too small then make the bridge smaler to blow the ship up some.

 

[Majestic]

I've read somewhere that the Incursion was supposed to be a 'heavy refit' of the Defiant. It kind of resembles the Defiant, yeah. But to me, it sounded more like 'we can take a leet ship and make it even more leet!' I am more comfortable with the Incursion being its own class and not a FanBoy refit.

My thoughts exactly, While it may have a similar profile it can't be consider a refit due to having a completely different overall shape. If you go with the original idea it's like saying the Sovereign is a Galaxy class refit, it just doesn't make sense.

Poly count is great man. Before you decide on the bridge scale it against the Defient at its current size. if the sp endsup too small then make the bridge smaler to blow the ship up some.

That's my plan, to scale the bridge. I plan it to be a little smaller than the Norway class, the Defiant is what 180-200m? I think the Incursion would be like 200-275 meters. It needs space for all that convert op equipment, planning rooms, training holodecks and the sorts.

The incursion is a great ship, so a recreation does make sense!

Your works looks pretty good. some new details that i like
Only the shape of the bussard collectors did i like more on the stock ship. But thats only my opinion

Yeah I re-modelled them as while the originals looked good I felt a different touch was in order and so I changed them to a design I am happy with. Some won't like them and others will, once the ship is textured, mined I can find some textures to match Aad Moerman's ships I think it will look better.

 

[Starfox1701]

I want to say Defient is between 130 and 180 meters and Norway is pushing 300 meters. 200 to 250 meeters should be good for what you want. Should give 300 to 350% more volume to work with.

 

[Majestic]

I want to say Defient is between 130 and 180 meters and Norway is pushing 300 meters. 200 to 250 meeters should be good for what you want. Should give 300 to 350% more volume to work with.

Well with the Defiant the size varies depending on what source you look at. So about 180 sounds like a good size. The Norway I know is a small cruiser so I say your estimate there is pretty accurate, I may go with the 225m - 250m size for the Incursion sounds good for me.

 

[dinosaurJR]

Very nice! I loved the Defiant you did a while back and this is shaping up to be a beaut too.

very clean mesh from what I can see so far - you've really worked on the modeling, and it shows.

 

[Majestic]

Thanks, it's the textures that stump me. It's one of the many reasons why most of my work never gets released, I can't create textures. I've tried in the past with no success.

 

[dinosaurJR]

Funny, I find that difficult too - make a nice clean model, fair enough... the bit that gets me is when you break up the model to take renders for a guide to create the base for texturing... questions pop up like, how many textures should I use? how much detail? and then I get stuck figuring out how to scale the parts of the model relative to each other for the render - to achieve optimal detail according to how big / visible the part is...

seriously, Ive made textures where the hull of the ship is stuck really small in the bottom corner, but the impulse engine glow is huge and takes 1/4 of the whole thing...

One of the things thats holding up the UNSC side for H:FC...

So dont worry mate - I feel your pain...

 

[Dan1025]

I'm really liking what you've done so far here Majestic, this should prove to be a much better replacement for the stock version than the retexture I did a while ago.

Really looking forward to seeing how this develops

 

[Majestic]

Funny, I find that difficult too - make a nice clean model, fair enough... the bit that gets me is when you break up the model to take renders for a guide to create the base for texturing... questions pop up like, how many textures should I use? how much detail? and then I get stuck figuring out how to scale the parts of the model relative to each other for the render - to achieve optimal detail according to how big / visible the part is...

seriously, Ive made textures where the hull of the ship is stuck really small in the bottom corner, but the impulse engine glow is huge and takes 1/4 of the whole thing...

One of the things thats holding up the UNSC side for H:FC...

So dont worry mate - I feel your pain...

I'm really liking what you've done so far here Majestic, this should prove to be a much better replacement for the stock version than the retexture I did a while ago.

Really looking forward to seeing how this develops

Thank you both of you, lucky for me I have secured myself a copy of Paint Shop Pro v8, so I am now working through Achilles Texture tutorial. While doing through it, it clicked that I need to figure out window sizes. So I did some research on ship sizes, the ships that are closest to the Incursion and got some conflicting size issues. So I am curious what people thing the sizes of the ships are or should be, as we all know the usual sci-fi show problem with scaling.

Here are examples from two commonly known sites that I have used in the past:

Spoiler: Memory-Alpha Dimensions

Memory – Alpha

Norway Class
Norway class - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki
364.77m (L) x 225.61m (B) x 52.48m (H)

Steamrunner Class
Steamrunner class - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki
375m (L) x 270.90m (B) x 79.50m (H)

Akira Class
Akira class - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki
464.43m (L) x 316.67m (B) x 87.43m (H)

Defiant Class
Defiant class - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki
170.68m (L) x 134.11m (B) x 30.10m (H)

Sabre Class
Saber class - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki
364.77m (H) x 225.61m (B) x 52.48m (H)

Spoiler: Advanced Starship Design Bureau

Advanced Starship Design Bureau

Norway Class
http://techspecs.startrek.acalltoduty.com/norway.html
445.02m (L) x 275.24m (B) x 64.00m (H)

Steamrunner Class
http://techspecs.startrek.acalltoduty.com/steamrunner.html
300.98m (L) x 223.20m (B) x 50.70m (H)

Akira Class
http://techspecs.startrek.acalltoduty.com/akira.html
464.43m (L) x 316.67m (B) x 87.43m (H)

Defiant Class
http://techspecs.startrek.acalltoduty.com/defiant.html
119.5m (L) x 90.30m (B) x 25.5m (H)

Intrepid Class
http://techspecs.startrek.acalltoduty.com/intrepid.html
342.50m (L) x 144.84m (B) x 55.42m (H)

Sabre Class
http://techspecs.startrek.acalltoduty.com/saber.html
190m (L) x 193.19m (B) x 48.60m (H)

I feel Memory-Alpha is way off on the Sabre to start with, I know it's not as small as the Defiant, it's a bit bigger but not 364 meters. I also feel ASDB is off a bit on the Defiant class, 170 meters is a lot better than 119 meters.

I want to hear what everyone has to say about the ship sizes of these ships, as I plan to get something solid to work with so I can scale the Incursion accordingly as I am looking at a 225 meters at the moment with the Defiant at a working length 170 meters and Sabre at a 190 meter length.

 

[dinosaurJR]

I cant really comment on the other ships, but I always scale the Defiant at around 120m long... Dont know why - I think I read it somewhere...god knows where... Now it seems that it kinda fits... not too big, not too small...

Also, with PSP8 - a word of advice, something glitches when re saving .tga textures after editing the Alpha map. The best thing to do is save a clean copy (no alpha channel) and then use that as a basis for all future light mapped textures - if you edit alpha then re save, the texture looks fine, but when applied to a model, and seen in Storm 3d, it comes out all pinky greeny... at least it does in my experience... Maybe you'll have better luck...
V9 seems ok though...

 

[Majestic]

Also, with PSP8 - a word of advice, something glitches when re saving .tga textures after editing the Alpha map. The best thing to do is save a clean copy (no alpha channel) and then use that as a basis for all future light mapped textures - if you edit alpha then re save, the texture looks fine, but when applied to a model, and seen in Storm 3d, it comes out all pinky greeny... at least it does in my experience... Maybe you'll have better luck...
V9 seems ok though...

I plan on continuing to use Photoshop for the alphas, I am just going to use PSP just for creating the textures.

However thanks for the tip, I'm glad I have both programs, it gives me more options.

 

[FahreS]

Thanks, it's the textures that stump me. It's one of the many reasons why most of my work never gets released, I can't create textures. I've tried in the past with no success.

Oh yes textures are hard to do, you have to start simple. Have a look at my first mods, the textures arent that great at all, but everytime i tried a new texture, I got better.

And no you dont want to see my first texture, that can compete with the USS LUMPY BLOB for sure. although i dont know how that ship looks like

 

[SciFiFan]

Oh yes textures are hard to do, you have to start simple. Have a look at my first mods, the textures arent that great at all, but everytime i tried a new texture, I got better.

And no you dont want to see my first texture, that can compete with the USS LUMPY BLOB for sure. although i dont know how that ship looks like

Maj, look at how my testures have improved. You have seen my first Bonaventure and the D-7. It is still not great but, each time it gets better.

 

[Majestic]

Well here is what my texture currently looks like, not exactly what I want. I am going to contact Aad and ask for the colour codes he uses. As it's his textures I am trying to match.

 

[dinosaurJR]

Im glad you have Photoshop too - PSP is really limiting in what you can do to an alpha channel - the light are either on full or off - so no feathered lighting effects... Its the last texturing skill I need to learn, and PSP just isnt up to it... Oh well, looks like I need to start saving for Photoshop... Any recommendations as to which version to get?

Also, can I make a small recommendation or two?

The background of the Texture, its black - I always find it best to keep the background the same colour as the actual sections you will map onto the ship, maybe a couple of points darker so you can see the outline of the sections you want to work on, that way, if the mesh you are mapping with the texture co ordinate mapping tool in MS3d doesnt fit exactly over the rendered section, you dont get unsightly black bits on your model.

Also - the aztec pattern makes a huge difference to the texture - for the federation, I have started to make repetitive aztec patterns, rather than random ones. Its not too hard and it makes all the difference.

But other than that, what you are doing is exactly what I do when making textures.

 

[Terra_Inc]

Im glad you have Photoshop too - PSP is really limiting in what you can do to an alpha channel - the light are either on full or off - so no feathered lighting effects... Its the last texturing skill I need to learn, and PSP just isnt up to it... Oh well, looks like I need to start saving for Photoshop... Any recommendations as to which version to get?

What about GIMP? It's not easy to puzzle out, but it does have most of Photoshop's functions.

 

[dinosaurJR]

GIMP is good - but the user interface is probably one of the most irritating I have seen (apart from Blender)

But it does do all that PSP can do - for free.

It still doesnt have the editing ability with Alpha Channels that Photoshop has, however... and that is the main thing I want it for...

 

[Majestic]

Yeah I avoid GIMP, too puzzling and confusing. Photoshop while expensive is also the best for alpha's in my opinion.

I also use Achilles' Aztec pattern from his tutorial.

 

[FahreS]

The background of the Texture, its black - I always find it best to keep the background the same colour as the actual sections you will map onto the ship, maybe a couple of points darker so you can see the outline of the sections you want to work on, that way, if the mesh you are mapping with the texture co ordinate mapping tool in MS3d doesnt fit exactly over the rendered section, you dont get unsightly black bits on your model.

No you shouldnt darken any unused texture parts. What dinosaurJR called best is a must. Dont edit texture parts that you dont use. the texture should have one background colour/pattern and then you add details to it.

Another thing you can do horribly wrong is doing the texture first and set the texture coordinates later.
I dont know if you did it, but you should never try it.
Instead set the texture coordinates directly after you have the texture background pattern. Then take a screenshot from the texture coordinate editor and paste it to your texture file. The pattern will help you to move the screenshot to the right position.
This will give you the outline. After you have done all the details for that part, delete the layer with the screenshot and everything will fit perfectly.

 

[SciFiFan]

No you shouldnt darken any unused texture parts. What dinosaurJR called best is a must. Dont edit texture parts that you dont use. the texture should have one background colour/pattern and then you add details to it.

Another thing you can do horribly wrong is doing the texture first and set the texture coordinates later.
I dont know if you did it, but you should never try it.
Instead set the texture coordinates directly after you have the texture background pattern. Then take a screenshot from the texture coordinate editor and paste it to your texture file. The pattern will help you to move the screenshot to the right position.
This will give you the outline. After you have done all the details for that part, delete the layer with the screenshot and everything will fit perfectly.

^This^

It is exactly how I did my D-7 (which I will finish as soon as I am done being distracted). It was much easier than any other method I tried before hand.

 

[Terra_Inc]

Yeah I avoid GIMP, too puzzling and confusing. Photoshop while expensive is also the best for alpha's in my opinion.

Yeah, it is confusing. There's no better tool for making weapon textures, though.

 

[Majestic]

Instead set the texture coordinates directly after you have the texture background pattern. Then take a screenshot from the texture coordinate editor and paste it to your texture file. The pattern will help you to move the screenshot to the right position.
This will give you the outline. After you have done all the details for that part, delete the layer with the screenshot and everything will fit perfectly.

That's how I did it, however I used the standard windows in MS3D and took screenshots of all the views then did as you said in Photoshop/Paintshop Pro. Being my first texture, that I am sure I'll definitely re-do, I am playing around with different techniques. All input is welcome from anyone with experience.

 

[FahreS]

That's how I did it, however I used the standard windows in MS3D and took screenshots of all the views then did as you said in Photoshop/Paintshop Pro. Being my first texture, that I am sure I'll definitely re-do, I am playing around with different techniques. All input is welcome from anyone with experience.

Well the advantage of using the texture coordinate editor is, that the coordinates on your texture are 100% correct then.
This will save you a lot of time and allows better results too.

 

[Majestic]

Well the advantage of using the texture coordinate editor is, that the coordinates on your texture are 100% correct then.
This will save you a lot of time and allows better results too.

Well I'll certainly give it a shot when I make my next set of textures. I am planning on going back and re-doing the textures for the Incursion.

Many thanks for the help Fahres.

 

[Chiletrek]

Hello:
And keep it up with the ship!
As for texture making, to make our own textures has many advantages, like we can have the details we want and it is much more easier to do/redo/edit the alpha channel. Last night I had to redo one and it was just some quick clicks here and there .
I look forward to see your progress!

 

[dinosaurJR]

No you shouldnt darken any unused texture parts. What dinosaurJR called best is a must. Dont edit texture parts that you dont use. the texture should have one background colour/pattern and then you add details to it.

Another thing you can do horribly wrong is doing the texture first and set the texture coordinates later.
I dont know if you did it, but you should never try it.
Instead set the texture coordinates directly after you have the texture background pattern. Then take a screenshot from the texture coordinate editor and paste it to your texture file. The pattern will help you to move the screenshot to the right position.
This will give you the outline. After you have done all the details for that part, delete the layer with the screenshot and everything will fit perfectly.

I guess you have your way, and I have mine... Which is best is borne out by the results... Your models look great - mine look ok...

 

[FahreS]

Well I'll certainly give it a shot when I make my next set of textures. I am planning on going back and re-doing the textures for the Incursion.

Many thanks for the help Fahres.

Oh no problem

I guess you have your way, and I have mine... Which is best is borne out by the results... Your models look great - mine look ok...

Well the "no" was a bit misplaced by me. What i wanted to say is that I agree with you about the black background.
And yes, I believe that everybody should find his own best way to do textures. But it might help if everybody shares his/her(?) ideas. Im certain that i can still optimize lots of things in the texture making process.