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Hardpointing a A2 Model Problem

Majestic

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Okay I started hardpointing one of the 3ds files located at AFC. The Imperial Tie fighter from Star Wars. I started adding the Primary Nodes when I ran into a problem.

I followed MAP's tutorial as best I can and when I exported it to sod to test it out in Storm3D it appeared well not right. Have a look at the pic below to see.



I converted it to A2 as thats the game it is going to be used in. Below are a few more pics to give you guys a little more information on the model.





Its most likely something very simple, but being new to this I have over looked it.

Any help would be great.
 

EAS_Intrepid

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The two mesh nodes have to be connected to the h_scene root node.

Click on the h_scene root node in the Joint Tab and then place a new joint just above the h_scene root. It is important that all joints like h_ligths, h_hardpoints, h_damage do have the same position as the h_scene root. (otherwise the position of the hardpoints, lights and single meshes of the model are not in place.)

However, when you placed a new joint on the model (on the h_scene root's position) you can name it after the mesh. m_wings

then put a second joint (after marking the h_scene root joint) on the same position and rename it to the mesh.

The h_scene root joint and the mesh joints need to be connected. If you move one of the two m-joints now, you should see that there is a triangle between it and the h_scene root.
 

Majestic

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Thanks Intrepid, it works. :D

 

EAS_Intrepid

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Fine!

Remember to connect all joints as h_hardpoints, h_lights, h_damage to the h_scene root node. All subnodes of the hardpoints etc only need to be connected to the "parent-joints"
 

Majestic

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EAS_Intrepid said:
Fine!

Remember to connect all joints as h_hardpoints, h_lights, h_damage to the h_scene root node. All subnodes of the hardpoints etc only need to be connected to the "parent-joints"

Thanks. I am working through MAP's tutorial as we speak. I have all the primary and parent nodes down now as well as the venting child nodes.
 

Majestic

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I have hit another snag now. I finished adding all the hardpoints and all that, I then exported the model and tried viewing it in Storm3D but it is just a box, like the one that appears when a sod file is missing ingame.

Any ideas?
 

EAS_Intrepid

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Post a picture of the screen as above. Then we might see what happened.

Or, try to install all joints one after another and test the mesh during the process a few times.
 

Majestic

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Here they are, I hope it helps.


 

EAS_Intrepid

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h_shields, h_target, h_sensors, h_crew, h_life, h_engines are connected to h_damage only?

no typos?
 

Majestic

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No typos and they are correctly assigned to h_damage.
 

Majestic

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I have another question. I started hardpoint a unit for map usage that will be in Parallels, supplied by Jigglypuff/Mark. The Ancient Aurora class (Stargate Atlantis).

Now my question is how do make a hardpoint face a certain direction?

I see there are three lines for each one, a purple, a yellow and a cyan one. Do these have anything to do with the direction of the hardpoint?

EDIT: I have another question, the hardpoints assigned don't seem to stay where I put them, as when played ingame the weapon hardpoint is in the middle of the ship instead of on the side where the cannon is and where I put the hardpoint in MS3D.
 
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EAS_Intrepid

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Majestic said:
I have another question, the hardpoints assigned don't seem to stay where I put them, as when played ingame the weapon hardpoint is in the middle of the ship instead of on the side where the cannon is and where I put the hardpoint in MS3D.

Yes, because the h_hardpoints, m_[mesh], h_lights, h_damage have to match the same XYZ co-ordinates as the h_scene root, that should be amidships of on the center line of the model.

As for the rotation: Look at Armada2files main page and scroll down. On the left side is a small tutorial section, there it should be stated how to rotate it.
 

Majestic

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EAS_Intrepid said:
Yes, because the h_hardpoints, m_[mesh], h_lights, h_damage have to match the same XYZ co-ordinates as the h_scene root, that should be amidships of on the center line of the model.

As for the rotation: Look at Armada2files main page and scroll down. On the left side is a small tutorial section, there it should be stated how to rotate it.

Found the tutorial thanks Intrepid.

Do the h_shields, h_life etc need to be in the centre line of the model as well?
 

EAS_Intrepid

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Well, better try it like this.

I do not use the damage venting anymore, so you should try that yourself.
 

Majestic

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Okay. Does it matter if any of the joints overlap, like h_shields etc?

 

Majestic

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I tried it again, I put everything but the h_hp01 in the center line of the ship but the weapons still came from the center of the ship. :(
 

EAS_Intrepid

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The h_hp01 is on the bow centerline. But the beam (or whatever) comes from amidship?
 

Majestic

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The h_hp01 is set on the cannon on the left of the ship (looking from the back), but the phaser is coming from the center of the ship.
 

Majestic

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Does anyone have any ideas on how to solve this?
 

Syf

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I would suggest using the "cheat method".

Hiearchy Cheat method: The How to Tutorial.

Welcome to SYF's tutorial on building a quick cheat Hiearchy. Let me show you how to get a working hiearchy without the hassels of building it 100% from scratch.

Part 1:
First, load Milkshape 3D (in order for this to work, you must have the SOD importer from Assimview).
Next, We are going to import the Fcruise1.SOD file (original A1 or A2 model only). You will have to point the importer to the directory of the SOD files for the game. Now that we have the original fcruise SOD in front of us, now we need to manipulate it to suit our needs. So on the Groups tab, be sure to hit "Clear All". Now with nothing selected, start deleting all the groups. Then click on the Materials tab, and delete all the textures. Now you have a basic hiearchy that you can manipulate. Now you need to save the hiearchy file under "Save As". Put it in the same folder as your MS3D files. Be sure to give it a name like "fcruise1_HP_sample" or something that you will remember.

Part 2:
Now, we are going to start manipulating the hiearchy as wee need. But first, an important warning:
NEVER EVER EVER MOVE THE CENTRAL NODES OF THE HIEARCHY! Sever Distortions WILL be caused by moving these!
Nodes -
h_Scene Root (or h_Root)
h_Lights
h_Hardpoints
h_Geometry (as well as with the h_ file descriptor)
h_Damage
h_Shields
h_Sensors
h_Target
h_Life
h_Engines
h_Crew
h_Borg
m_**** (anything with the "Mesh" node must be centered as best as possible)

Now that we have that clear, After saving this as a sampler file, close completely out of MS3D (this is a precaution to prevent a crash)

Now re-launch MS3D. Now open your model file, And do all your finalization of the model. Make sure all the groups have been regrouped and all the textures match the group names (one group per texture). Also, make sure the model in centered, and scale the model to an appropiate size (Use the Assimview scaler tool). Once you add the hiearchy, you can not move the model, or else you will distort the hiearchy file.

Now under the "File menu", Merge, and choose the fcruise1_hp sample file (whatever you named that fcruise hiearchy to, merge it to your model). Now that you have added the hiearchy, Save the file as the final name you are going to use (same as the name you are going to call the exported SOD file).

Now you can freely move the "child nodes", child nodes are as such - h_hp01, s_crew1, e_streamsml, etc. to adjust where the HPs are going to be. These will come out where you put them. You may also delete any extras that you don't want (but only the child nodes may be removed). Now's a good time to add any more HPs to the list of hardpoints. To delete one, on the joints tab, find the hp, strobe, or stream, and merely selecting it, then delete using the keyboard delete button. To add a new child node, select the appropieate parent node (h_Hardpoints for example), then on the model tab, click joint on, then in one of the 2d viewport windows, click the spot that you want the new node to be made. Then, click the move button (still in the model tab), and move the new child node to the exact place you want it.

Now, make note of the h_fcruise1, m_lod1, and m_lod2. The h_fcruise1 is the SOD descriptor node (for lack of a proper term). This must be the same name as the model file name. The m_ nodes must be renamed to match the groups you have. If you have more groups then the 2 m_lod*(s), you may add joints and rename them with the Mesh marker (m_*group name). Be sure that if you have to add mesh nodes, then select h_Geometry on the joints tab, then on the model tab, click joint, then on the left/right side 2d viewport windows, click the spot as close to the center of the hiearchy as possible. Then just rename that new joint.

Now, when the joints are all there, you are ready to export. save your work one last time before exporting. (Note: Unless you have Alpha channels on your texture, use the Armada 1 sod type in the export window.)

Some last notes:

You can add a sub joint to a parent node (like h_Hardpoints) name it joint00, then add a new child node (h_hp01 or whatever the next HP should be) and then you may rotate that joint in MS3D. However, it's not 100% that you can get a weapon to fire from the backside of a model. Torpedoes only fire forward, regardless of the direction of the hardpoint.

Adding new vents are some of the hardest things to get right. You will probable have to go back and move those several time before getting them right. And to make it worse, if you use ScaleSOD in you ODF file, then you will again throw off the location of vents. I personally don't like to use the vents.

If the model is not a ship, you can remove the h_Engine. If not, then you will find that the model (during game play) actually has a burning engine vent in the middle of it, even if you didn't include engine points in the odf.:confused:
 

Majestic

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Does it work importing 3ds files? As this is what I am doing.
 

Syf

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You can import a 3DS file into Milkshape. Then sure, you can add the hiearchy to the model afterwards.

However, when importing a 3DS file that has a hiearchy already, I don't think any "joints" would be converted (not really sure, never got my hands on a jointed 3DS file).
 

Majestic

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The reason why I am asking is because of

Syf said:
So on the Groups tab, be sure to hit "Clear All". Now with nothing selected, start deleting all the groups.

When I do as above it starts deleting the mesh groups (IE Parts of the model disappear). I clicked the clear all option in the groups tab but still get the same problem.
 

Syf

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Ah... Ok.

The first part of the tutorial is to open the actual Armada 2 fcruise.SOD. In your Activision\Star Trek - Armada 2\SOD folder, where all the original files to the NON-Modded files. When you have it open, Save it as a MS3D file, and delete all the Groups and Texture, as to the only thing you will have left is the hiearchy (joints) left. You want to delete the Fcruise mesh and mapped textures. You are going to build your hiearchy using a borrowed hiearchy from an original file from the game. Since this is only a hiearchy, and Activision allows use to mod the game, there's no reason we can't use a part of a file they made.

After deleting all sections but the hiearchy, your going to attach it to your model, modify it, then export it. It's the same thing as if you were to borrow one of the original game textures to use on you own model.
 

Majestic

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Syf said:
Ah... Ok.

The first part of the tutorial is to open the actual Armada 2 fcruise.SOD. In your Activision\Star Trek - Armada 2\SOD folder, where all the original files to the NON-Modded files. When you have it open, Save it as a MS3D file, and delete all the Groups and Texture, as to the only thing you will have left is the hiearchy (joints) left. You want to delete the Fcruise mesh and mapped textures. You are going to build your hiearchy using a borrowed hiearchy from an original file from the game. Since this is only a hiearchy, and Activision allows use to mod the game, there's no reason we can't use a part of a file they made.

After deleting all sections but the hiearchy, your going to attach it to your model, modify it, then export it. It's the same thing as if you were to borrow one of the original game textures to use on you own model.

Ah okay, I understand now. Thanks. :)
 

Syf

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Good, I look forward to seeing a post of your results. (with pictures):thumbsup:
 

Elrond

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I've heard things about connecting a mesh (named "shield") to h_shield node so that one could get skin shields (the shield mesh would be a model as well that would not show up unless shield was hit). A couple of modding teams were working on that that I know of, but nothing yet discovered on that.
 

Majestic

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Syf said:
Good, I look forward to seeing a post of your results. (with pictures):thumbsup:


Well I think I got it down packed thanks to you Syf, though I will have to make sure in future that I have the ship facing the right way. :lol2:

Since you requested them here are some screenshots. Note I hardpointed MAP's BC-304 as my test run.



 

Majestic

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I am having a problem with other models still though, when I go to export them to sod, MS3D moved all the hardpoints back to their original positions. I have just wasted about 2 hours of work. :(
 

Syf

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An interesting problem. Did you move any of the parent nodes? Also, did you move a part of the mesh?
 
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