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Windows 10

Hellkite

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Your welcome @ Cabal


Wariness of having that much personal information on some server is a common. I think that it's one of the major hurtles that if not shot comings of the OS . They will have to address if they are hoping to have the mass migration form 7 to 10 that they need that or they will have another flop like 8.
 

CABAL

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Wariness of having that much personal information on some server is a common. I think that it's one of the major hurtles that if not shot comings of the OS . They will have to address if they are hoping to have the mass migration form 7 to 10 that they need that or they will have another flop like 8.
I think that so long as important features like security updates don't need an account then with the OS being free, they're not going to have too many issues with getting 7 users to migrate. I'm almost certainly going to upgrade and there's no way I would have done it if I needed to drop another $200 or more on it. I just got 7 a couple months ago.
 

Hellkite

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I was thinking more on the lines of business and government users which are heavy PC users
 

CABAL

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I see. The rolling upgrade is still pretty tempting from that POV, too. I would imagine that the enterprise version will likely be less insistent on using the Microsoft account, since Microsoft seems to be getting their collective heads out of their posteriors.
 

Hellkite

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Even then I see the DOD not being none to happy with it with any insistent on using the Microsoft account.
 

Majestic

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I might upgrade my 8.1 laptop to Win10 and if I don;t like it I'll just put 7 on it. But my PC is staying 7 as I hate the direction Microsoft and so many other companies are head in, everything needs to be online these days which isn't possible nor safe in my opinion.
 

kjc733

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I see. The rolling upgrade is still pretty tempting from that POV, too. I would imagine that the enterprise version will likely be less insistent on using the Microsoft account, since Microsoft seems to be getting their collective heads out of their posteriors.
Ha! My place is only just getting round to going site-wide W7!!

I hate the direction Microsoft and so many other companies are head in, everything needs to be online these days which isn't possible nor safe in my opinion.
I agree completely. You can't tell me that running software over a network connection is more reliable or secure than from your own machine. Plus there are places without network access, or places without fast network access.
 

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I agree completely. You can't tell me that running software over a network connection is more reliable or secure than from your own machine. Plus there are places without network access, or places without fast network access.
Part of the problem is that the people making that decision have had blazing fast internet for so long that they've forgotten that it's not the norm. MS assuming that everyone would have a touchscreen by now is another instance of that.
 

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Don't get me started on touchscreens! I just spent three years of my life explaining over and over that touchscreens in the cockpit, especially using swiping, just isn't practical. They're barely practical on a desktop! The only way they become usable is if you design the whole HMI around the interface, which brings with it a huge number of compromises for questionable gain...

See what you've gone and done. I'll stop ranting...
 

Hellkite

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Don't get me started on touchscreens! I just spent three years of my life explaining over and over that touchscreens in the cockpit, especially using swiping, just isn't practical. They're barely practical on a desktop! The only way they become usable is if you design the whole HMI around the interface, which brings with it a huge number of compromises for questionable gain...

See what you've gone and done. I'll stop ranting...

Yes!But it was a very correct and validated rant.
 

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Apparently, I should have been more prompt with updating the preview. So far, my system has rebooted more often than the average superhero.
 

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So, I haven't really talked about the preview in quite a while. However, I have fully updated to the latest version (10041) and can give a nice little tour.

First off, the system theme has been updated. The taskbar now uses a flat theme with a thin bar underlining the icons of programs that are open with the focused program having a highlighted box rather than recycling the modified 7 theme that was used for 8. The narrow 'show desktop' button on the far right of the taskbar from 7 has also been restored.
preview1.png

Another handy feature in this version is that any file can be pinned to the taskbar by simply right-clicking on it and selecting 'Pin to taskbar' (which I did with the recycle bin, and then hid it on the desktop through the usual method) and any file or folder can be pinned to the Start Menu the same way.

The Task View button on the taskbar displays all open windows in a spread, allowing you to pick the one you want. Handy if you have multiple instances of the same program, otherwise you might as well just use the taskbar.
preview2.png
Task View also has a virtual desktop function where you can assign windows to different desktops for organizational purposes. Just open Task View and click the 'New Desktop' button. Once you have more than one, you can simply drag and drop your windows to the desktop you want via Task View. Eventually, icons on the taskbar will supposedly limit themselves to only showing the programs open on that desktop, but that isn't currently implemented.

The Start Menu, now just called Start, has been redesigned again. The size is now fixed; you can't drag and drop the upper edge like before and it doesn't expand or shrink horizontally with your tiles either. However, there are now re-nameable headers available for organization and you can scroll through the tiles vertically if you have enough for them to continue below the bottom edge. The search menu has been embedded in the taskbar instead of the Start Menu, though invoking Start, either by clicking on the button or tapping the Windows key, will still automatically drop an I-beam in the search field allowing you to quickly search for programs like in 7. It's also slightly transparent, but that's not overly relevant.
preview3.png
Start also has a button in the top right to maximize the menu like a window. This primarily seems to create more room for tiles, but I suppose that the 'Most used' section may expand, too. Windows remembers which mode you last had Start in so you don't need to keep maximizing or un-maximizing it all the time. It's also more transparent than the small version, but that also is not overly relevant.
preview4.png

If you don't like Task View or Search being on the taskbar, you can easily disable them by right-clicking on the taskbar and turning them off. You can also condense Search down to a single icon instead of the input box. The Search icon changes from a magnifying glass to the Cortana logo depending on if you have Cortana enabled or not. If you disable Search or shrink it down to just the icon, the box is still accessible by clicking on it or opening Start.
preview5.png preview6.png

Cortana is currently included and you can invoke her by clicking in the search box, clicking on the Cortana logo, or saying, "Hey, Cortana," into a microphone. Currently, the Win10 version of Cortana doesn't have as many features as the Windows Phone version, but it does display news and the five day forecast. I don't have a microphone so I can't check the extent of the features, though. You do need a Microsoft Account to use Cortana so you may want to watch what you tell say into the mike or type into the box depending on exactly how much data it can pull. If you don't have a Microsoft Account, then Cortana is disabled and Search replaces it. You can also easily disable Cortana through the menu in the upper left.
preview7.png
Cortana is voiced by Jen Taylor and does pronounce names correctly, and can be corrected if she doesn't. If you really want, there's nothing stopping you from having Cortana refer to you as Master Chief, Chief, or John-117. Or Sexy. Whatever floats your boat.

As far as the bundled apps go, it's a bit of a mixed bag, though the beta status probably doesn't help. Many of them have a new button added to the usual minimize, maximize/un-maximize, and close buttons that functions as a full-screen toggle. When these programs are in full-screen mode, you can bring up the titlebar to go back to normal size by simply moving your mouse to the top of the screen and waiting about a quarter second. The old menu bar with things like file, edit, etc. is gone in favor of a drop down menu on the far left side of the title bar that uses a simple 'three horizontal lines' icon.

The Music app is a huge improvement over using Media Player for music. It automatically scans your Music library (same thing as the Win7 user libraries) for songs. Creating, editing, and deleting playlists is very simple. At the main Collection screen, you can sort your music by album, artist, or title. The Explore screen is a music store, but I haven't tried it at all. There's also a Radio screen, but it looks like that requires some kind of paid account. There is a trial mode if you really want to check out the Radio function.
preview8.png preview9.png preview10.png

The Video app is similar. There is a store, divided into movies and TV, and a Collection screen which searches your Video library. The store selection looks pretty good, and I found a couple episodes free, but I can't get them to download. On the bright side, it has support for MKV format videos and local video playback is definitely improved over what Media Player offered. If you're a VLC fan this probably won't change your mind, but it's definitely better that what came before.
preview11.png preview12.png

I haven't really tested older games much for backwards compatibility, but FO works just fine, as does Gimp and VLC. Installation of all three went perfectly. 10 is also compatible with the Vista, 7, 8, and 8.1 drivers so there's no need to worry there.
preview13.png preview14.png

Ye olde Widows Explorer has been renamed File Explorer and now defaults to a new Quick Access area displaying frequent folders and recent files instead of the Libraries area. Libraries is still available from the side pane, but it's not the default folder anymore. There's a whole bunch of new icons, too. It also uses a ribbon instead of a menu bar.
preview15.png
Computer/My Computer has been renamed to This PC and slightly reworked. It now displays the current user's folders in addition to the drives.
preview16.png

Control Panel is being phased out in favor of the Settings window. If you still want the Control Panel, it is still available by right-clicking on the Start button, along with a slew of other system management features.
preview17.png preview18.png

The old network menus have been replaced, mostly to fit in with the new theme more. It seems to have all the old options but I haven't done a comprehensive check.
preview19.png preview20.png

The new Notification Center, located between the clock and the systray, lists all notifications you have received recently so if you miss one of those little corner-of-the-screen pop-up notices you can still find them. And apparently I've run out of attachments so no more pictures.

10 is certainly different, but whether it's better than 7 or not I think largely depends on how you like the UI and how good the backwards compatibility is. It runs FO, so that's a good sign, but I haven't done more in-depth testing. If you're using 8 on a desktop or laptop, by all means, get 10 as soon as it's available, but if you're on 7, then the biggest reasons to upgrade will probably be the free upgrades to future versions and DirectX12.
 

Hellkite

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Thinking I keep my windows 7 ultimate on my desktop "gaming rig" /primary , but will switch my laptop " windows 8.1" over to 10
 

CABAL

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I think I'm going to make an image of my 7 partition and save it to my external drive so I can install 10 and revert if things go badly.
 

Hellkite

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That sounds like a wise approach Cabal.

For me I really do not use my laptop all that much, mostly due to the Os that it has on it " 8.1" that I really do hate . So to me it not really a big thing for me to go to 10 it can not be any worse than 8
 

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I just got done installing the latest Windows 10 build (10061) so how about I do some reporting?

The first thing I noticed is that the theme has changed. The default is now black for the Taskbar and Start Menu with the theme color as a highlight. This can be switched back to the old style by going to Start -> Settings -> Personalization -> Colors and toggling 'Show color on taskbar and Start Menu'. The same location also has an option to disable transparency on the Taskbar and Start Menu. Incidentally, the Taskbar has very light transparency again, similar to Vista and 7. An upside to the black style is that it is easier to see the underline showing which of the apps on your Taskbar are open. Unfortunately, whether color is on or not, all apps now have a uniform grey title bar that I find dull. Lastly, the Recycle Bin has a new icon. Because the last one was rather poor.
01.png 02.png

The Start Menu can be re-sized again like in the older builds. You can click and drag the top edge for free-form re-sizing vertically, or the right edge for horizontal re-sizing that snaps to form columns for the tiles. Additionally, the power menu has been moved from the top right corner, next to the maximize button, down to directly above 'All apps', more like it was in 7.
03.png 04.png

Tablet Mode was present in at least 10049 but it didn't do much in the older versions. Now it maximizes the Start Menu and enlarges Taskbar buttons to make them easier to hit with a finger. I assume there are other, more noticeable, features if you have a touch screen. Tablet Mode can easily be accessed from the Notification Center, along with a few other options.
05.png 06.png

The Time and Date menu, accessible by clicking on the clock, has been updated to match the new theme.
07.png

There are a few other things that are pretty minor style changes or bug fixes. The microphone icon for Search and Cortana has been changed, the controls on the Music app now stay visible at all resolutions, etc. That's pretty much it, as far as I can tell. This one mostly seems to have focused on polishing up things from the last build. Since 10 is apparently going to be released near the end of July, if the AMD guy with the big mouth is right, it wouldn't surprise me if they're cutting down on implementing additional features and aiming at feature freeze soon. If I'm right, then the next releases will likely focus almost exclusively on bug fixes and polish.
 

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Don't know if you said this earlier or not, but what machine do you have it installed on?

I'm downloading it currently and - despite their warning - I was debating installing it on on my primary machine. The 8.1 install is already temperamental enough that I figured it couldn't be much worse.
 

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I have it on my primary machine. It has its own drive and I was unplugging my Linux/Win7 drive whenever I wanted to boot Win10, but it's stable enough that they're both plugged in all the time now.

Specs are:
2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (Socket LGA775)
4GB DDR2 RAM (Two 2GB sticks)
Nvidia GeForce GT 630 (2GB memory)
1TB HDD (SATA 2.0, Linux/Win7)
350GB HDD (SATA 2.0, Win10)

EDIT: As a warning, after upgrading to 10061, I had to run chkdsk on my NTFS volumes since I couldn't access them properly from Linux or 7. I ran it from my existing 7 install. If you stick with the Slow ring, you probably won't have these issues.

EDIT 2: And it looks like that broke my 10 partition. Apparently 10 now uses a different version of NTFS that is incompatible with the old version used by 7. DO NOT INSTALL WINDOWS 10 PREVIEW ON THE SAME SYSTEM AS WINDOWS 7.

EDIT 3: Re-segregating them and allowing each to repair its own drives seems to have fixed both 7 and 10, but I'm not keeping both drives plugged in at the same time anymore.
 
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CABAL

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It literally took an entire day to download and upgrade to the latest build. I'm assuming that more people are using the preview now and the servers can't handle it or something. Anyway, onto build 10074.

Once again, there are minor changes to the theme. The network connection icon now uses a curved bars icon rather than the old vertical bars icon. The volume menu matches the theme instead of recycling the 7 theme. Cortana's icon is smaller when reduced to just an icon and not the icon and search box.
01.png

More advertised, of course, is the return of the Aero Glass effect from Vista and 7. Annoyingly, this only applies to the taskbar and start menu with the titlebars still being the same boring grey. When you upgrade, you have a 50/50 chance of getting the blur from Aero applied to the taskbar and start menu. If you didn't get it, it's pretty much the same transparency that was in the last build. You can also enable or disable it manually by editing the registry and going to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Themes\Personalize and changing the value of EnableBlurBehind to 1/0. Also, if you make the start menu fullscreen, your tiles are now centered vertically rather than sitting at the top of the screen. Blur is disabled, though.
02.png 04.png

If you just want a tile to be a shortcut and don't want it displaying live data, you may now right click on it and disable it. Live tiles also have a new 'flip' animation that is more like rolling a block rather than flipping a card, if that makes any sense. You should be able to find a video on Youtube or something.
03.png

Cortana also has some updates. As you may have noticed, Cortana/Search doesn't drop a search box on the taskbar when you open the start menu if it has been reduced to just an icon. If you do start typing with the start menu open, though, Cortana/Search takes over, with the start menu actually morphing into the Cortana/Search menu. Cortana's menu has also been replaced with a vertical bar of icons. Clicking the top one will expand it so that you can see the labels for the icons. Lastly, Cortana accepts more commands. I'm not sure why I would want to know how tall random celebrities are, but this will surely be a boon to crazy stalkers everywhere. Presumably, this is sort of a test to see if they can make Cortana pull data you want from websites and present it to you cleanly.
05.png 06.png 07.png
That's Fahrenheit on the weather bit, by the way. According to Google, I'm at 8.88889 degrees Celsius. I am not being cooked.

Other than that, the only thing for me to say, really, is that this build is very quick. Apps open and close very fast and the system is very responsive on the whole.
 

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I don't know if this has been answered yet or not, but does the speed of the OS include file transfers? Something that has annoyed me since Vista came out has been the very slow rate of file transfer on each of the new systems when transferring a large file. Has this been fixed or improved?
 

CABAL

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Do you mean from one system to another or from one part of a system to another part of the same system?
 

CABAL

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I didn't notice a difference between 7 and 10. The speed is probably limited by not just the particular drive in use, but also the structure of NTFS. They really should make a new file system, NTFS is nearly twenty two years old now. For comparison, Apple's HFS+ is nineteen years old, and Linux's ext4 turns seven years old in October.
 

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dvatreknerd another factor would be the speed of you hard drive
 

CABAL

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And processor speed. And available RAM. And, for some reason, if you're using Explorer or the command prompt.
 

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DirectX 12 includes a new feature called Multiadapter which will allow the main GPU to slave the motherboard's integrated GPU to it and offload some of the graphics processing (such as post-processing effects), improving framerate. This is similar to Nvidia's SLI technology and AMD's CrossFire technology, but more flexible in that it can mix completely different architectures. An Intel integrated GPU can be slaved to an AMD or Nvidia GPU with no problems.

In related news, Square Enix got to test out DX12 and believe that it will allow them to squeeze out 6 to 12 times as many polygons per second as with DX11. Below is a video of the tech demo, all done in real-time rendering. There was no pre-rendering done for that demo. They did, however, go extremely overkill with four Nvidia TitanX GPUs in SLI configuration, so don't expect any games to actually look that good for at least another decade.

You may want to watch this on Youtube so you can set it to 1080p.

DX12 is currently only planned to be supported on Windows 10 and Xbox One with no plans to backport it to earlier versions of Windows.
 

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DX12 is currently only planned to be supported on Windows 10 and Xbox One with no plans to backport it to earlier versions of Windows.

Oh that sucks, a cheap way to try and increase Win10 sales. I think it should at least support Win8 and Win7 as well.

Thanks for all the updates mate. MSFC's Tech Expert is what we should call you. :D
 

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Oh that sucks, a cheap way to try and increase Win10 sales. I think it should at least support Win8 and Win7 as well.
It's not like they haven't done that before. DX10 and 11 required Vista or later and even 9.0c required that you use XP SP2 or later. I suppose it's possible the DirectX updates could rely on some change to the kernel, but it probably is mostly to encourage people to update. It does make some sense from a business standpoint. If DX10 and 11 were supported on XP, why would gamers want to leave XP? Besides the security issues, that is. And poor 64-bit support. And spotty multi-core support. And lack of SATA drivers. Maybe that wasn't the best example.

It also looks like they're trying to get everyone on the same version of the OS so I imagine they'll be putting less effort into supporting multiple versions than they have before.

Thanks for all the updates mate. MSFC's Tech Expert is what we should call you. :D
You're welcome and thanks! Just don't ask for help with Apple devices.
 

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Build 10122 is out now with a few small changes. Settings and File Explorer have been moved to the bottom of the Start menu with Power and All Apps, while Documents has been removed from the Start menu entirely. Shortcuts pinned as tiles now have the icon blown up to take up the majority of the tile rather than sitting in the middle. HD icons should look nice now. The fullscreen button for the Start menu has also been removed and a new toggle for the function added to Settings -> Personalization -> Start. There are some other new options there but they are greyed out.
01.png 02.png

None of the apps have a fullscreen button up by the other window controls anymore. They do all have back buttons, though. The position of said button is a little inconsistent, though; for some apps it's on the titlebar and for others it is below it. Still, simply being present on everything is a nice improvement. The Music and Video apps have a new theme to match the rest of the system and the Xbox logo has been removed.
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You can no longer purchase movies, shows, and music from the Music and Video apps, instead you purchase them through the Windows Store. The Store itself has a new look and there are category buttons at the top.
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I'm honestly not sure when this happened, and it may even be in 8 so this may not exactly be news, but the Task Manager defaults to a mini-mode that is greatly simplified. You can still right-click things to bring up a menu to kill them, though. Clicking 'More details' at the bottom expands the Task Manager to a more familiar form, with all the old features in the new look and a 'Fewer details' button at the bottom to switch back. It also remembers if it was in 'More details' or 'Fewer details' mode the last time it was opened and goes to whichever it was. This also seems to be the only remaining Windows program that still has the old menu bar and not the 'hamburger' menu or a Ribbon. Probably not news, but I thought it was different enough from XP and 7 to note.
07.png 08.png 09.png

Other than that, the system seems to be playing nice with old NTFS drives again, seeing as how I can access my external HDD without running a disk check. It's also pretty snappy. Cortana has a noticeable speed boost, the boot time has been cut down, and programs are pretty responsive. Something they did also fixed a rendering issue with Google Chrome. It used to be cut off by a few pixels on each side when maximized, not much but enough for some things to be slightly clipped. This has been fixed and the window fits properly now.
 

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Thanks fr the review Cabal. Been keeping my eye on this, I think your reviews will determine if I'll update to 10 or not.
 
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