Windows 10

[CABAL]

EDIT: Moved these off of the Shout Thread so they wouldn't clutter it up.

Just got a new wireless card and my connection is so much better.

In other news, Microsoft revealed Windows 10 today. Why they're going for 10 and not 9, I have no idea. The Start Menu is finally coming back for desktop mode, the distinction between desktop and metro apps is being done away with, and it looks like it's overall to 8 what 7 was to Vista.

Here's the picture used on the Wikipedia article.

Spoiler: Windows 10

 

[dvatreknerd314]

That's a very interesting hybrid of the start menu and the tiles menu. Not sure if I like it or not.

As far as the naming, it might be to try to compete with Mac OS X. Vista, 7, 8, and 8.1 are technically Windows NT 6, 6.1, 6.2, and 6.3 respectively.

 

[CABAL]

That's a very interesting hybrid of the start menu and the tiles menu. Not sure if I like it or not.

It actually seems like a pretty ingenious idea to me. You could fill it with shortcuts, news, whatever.

As far as the naming, it might be to try to compete with Mac OS X. Vista, 7, 8, and 8.1 are technically Windows NT 6, 6.1, 6.2, and 6.3 respectively.

Yeah, aside from the UI there really isn't much difference under the hood. Unfortunately, they scrapped truly innovative and useful aspects a while ago, such as a file system called WinFS that wouldn't fragment your stuff across the entire drive.

I watched a video on another site where a guy from Microsoft demonstrates a bunch of new features in 10. I swear, most of those features seem like they were pulled straight from Ubuntu.

 

[Majestic]

They can polish it up, but if it's the same under the hood it won't do any better than 8. I'll stick with 7 thank you very much Microsoft.

Thanks for posting this Cabal, I hope you keep us updated on this. I am curious to see what becomes of it. To be honest Win7 was the last decent Windows operating system, while it has it's issues they weren't anywhere near as bad as what Win8 had.

 

[CABAL]

They can polish it up, but if it's the same under the hood it won't do any better than 8. I'll stick with 7 thank you very much Microsoft.

I meant that Vista, 7, 8, and 8.1 are all basically the same under the hood. They're all using versions of the NT 6 kernel. 7 really is Vista with another service pack and a new taskbar. Considering that 10 started life as 8.2, I imagine it will continue that trend.

Also, WinFS was actually going to be part of Vista, back when it was called Longhorn. I know it sounded like it was going to be part of 10 from my post.

Thanks for posting this Cabal, I hope you keep us updated on this. I am curious to see what becomes of it.

No problem. I actually thought it was a joke at first because they skipped 9 and was quite surprised to find out they were serious.

To be honest Win7 was the last decent Windows operating system, while it has it's issues they weren't anywhere near as bad as what Win8 had.

There are a few things in 10 that sound promising. For one, it will boot directly to the desktop if a keyboard is installed rather than taking you to the tiles. An upgrade of 7's start menu is also included so desktop users don't need to deal with Metro at all (aside from the live tiles in the start menu).

You also get web results when you search the start menu. This has also been an Ubuntu feature for a while and it got serious backlash until a couple unaffiliated groups deemed the connection secure and a setting to turn it off was added. The main controversy stemmed from sending every single thing you typed into the dash (Ubuntu start menu) to a server automatically. Even after letting the user disable it, it is considered controversial. If Microsoft decided to copy that feature and didn't come up with it independently then somebody obviously wasn't looking too closely at customer reaction.

They're also aiming for device convergence, which is a goal that Ubuntu has had for a while. Rather than tablets, laptops, and desktops all running the same OS like with 8, it will also extend to smart phones and the Windows Phone OS will be scrapped. While this doesn't sound very meaningful to the everyday user, system overhead and bloat should plummet if they consider this a serious goal.

The Windows Store from 8 is also being carried over and is also more or less identical to the Ubuntu Software Center but with things like a kill switch to remove apps from your system they've decided to pull from the Store.

Lastly, they're ditching the desktop versions of programs from 8 in favor of simply running the Metro versions in a window when you use the desktop mode. So now you won't, for instance, have IE installed twice with two unrelated sets of bookmarks.

On the whole, I'd classify this as being better than 8, but still not worth the time, effort, or money to upgrade from 7.

Here's the video I saw.

You'll also be able to download the preview build sometime later today from here.

 

[CABAL]

Huh, looks like 10 is using NT kernel 6.4 so there still aren't massive under the hood changes. At this point I think it will take another big advancement in hardware for them to decide to revamp the kernel to v7.

Also, the virtual desktops mentioned by Mr. Hairdo have been a feature of various Linux distros for a very long time.

 

[dvatreknerd314]

I think some of the improvements they're mentioning are good, but I really think it should be released as 8.2 instead of 10

 

[CABAL]

I think some of the improvements they're mentioning are good, but I really think it should be released as 8.2 instead of 10

It actually started as 8.2 and there was an internal debate at Microsoft as to whether it should be released as 8.2 or to abandon the tarnished 8 name and release it as 9. Ironically, their justification for calling it 10 instead of 9 is that, "based on the product that’s coming, and just how different our approach will be overall, it wouldn’t be right".

Does anybody have an extra system laying around that they could install the preview on? I'm working with second hand information here.

 

[Zelph]

My roommate has it running on a separate harddrive. It's rough around the edges, but he's enjoying it. Massive improvement over 8.

 

[Hellkite]

Literally anything is a massive improvement over 8 in my book

 

[Majestic]

My roommate has it running on a separate harddrive. It's rough around the edges, but he's enjoying it. Massive improvement over 8.

Literally anything is a massive improvement over 8 in my book

I reckon Windows 3.1 would be an improvement over 8. Okay maybe not but I found it funny!

 

[Zelph]

I reckon Windows 3.1 would be an improvement over 8. Okay maybe not but I found it funny!

Haha, you know what? I was actually thinking that. That's the first operating system that I remember using.

 

[CABAL]

Haha, you know what? I was actually thinking that. That's the first operating system that I remember using.

Mine was Windows 95, but apparently I'm a fetus.

 

[Majestic]

Haha, you know what? I was actually thinking that. That's the first operating system that I remember using.

Yeah my old man had it on the PC (a 486) in 1994 and was my first non-DOS operating system that I used. I remember playing Star Trek: The Next Generation - A Final Unity on that PC and it was a great game, though if I recall correctly it had to be run from DOS rather than Windows. Though I was only 10 back than so I ain't trusting the memory too much.

Damn that was 20 years ago now. Time flies that's for sure.

 

[Zelph]

Mine was Windows 95, but apparently I'm a fetus.

Haha, good old Windows 95. I was so stoked when we finally got it. Along with a nice month-long free trial of AOL. Until about 2001, the only time we had Internet was when we got one of those things.

Yeah my old man had it on the PC (a 486) in 1994 and was my first non-DOS operating system that I used. I remember playing Star Trek: The Next Generation - A Final Unity on that PC and it was a great game, though if I recall correctly it had to be run from DOS rather than Windows. Though I was only 10 back than so I ain't trusting the memory too much.

Damn that was 20 years ago now. Time flies that's for sure.

Twenty years...ouch...yeah...according to my roommate, since I'm not 25 and still single, I'm now a menace to society.

I remember playing around with DOS - potentially pre-Windows 3.1 - pretty well. I had a sweet baseball game that I used to play on there. And another one that had something to do with the Busytown books. Good times haha.

 

[Majestic]

Yeah I remembered we had like 100 games on floppy disks for DOS. All sorts of games from racing to action games like Jill of the Jungle, Duke Nukem 1 and 2 and Commander Keen. Those were the good old days.

We also got 95 after 3.1. It was a pretty big change but a much better operating system I still think 95 and 98 were the most stable out of the Windows operating systems. Never had a problem with them.

 

[CABAL]

It sounds like Windows 8.1 users will get a free upgrade to Windows 10 when it comes out via the Windows Store assuming you're using the retail version and not the OEM version.

Additionally, I dropped by a local computer store today to look at parts and the guy there showed me some nice tricks with 8.1 to avoid Metro all together. This has me wondering, should I get 7, or should I get 8.1 for the same price and then get the free upgrade to 10 when it comes out around April? What do you guys think?

 

[Hellkite]

I'd go with 7 given that possible Free upgrade it not set in stone and lives in the land of maybes . If it's not true is not your be stuck with the mound of bullsh*t that is 8.1

Were With 7 you have a good OS

 

[Majestic]

I am with 7 and no complaints here. It's a decent operating system. I have ultimate and I love it with no plans of upgrading at all.

Also Hellkite mentioned that the free upgrade hasn't been set in stone, so if you want to go that route, I'd wait until it's announced officially before buying 8.1. Still I think 7, Vista and XP are all superior to 8 and probably will be superior to 10 when it hits the shelves as well.

 

[CABAL]

Good points. One thing that has me concerned is that 7 won't be receiving much in the way of updates after January 13th of next year. Additionally, 8.1's UI has problems, but there is better system performance. Thirdly, the 7 OEM disks that I'm seeing are the same price as the 8.1 retail disks, while 7 retail disks are being sold for two or three times that. If I brick my system with an OEM disk, then I need to buy a new one, right?

 

[Hellkite]

No

As long as you retain the 7 Oem product key you can call MS and they will activate it for you .I've gone it a many of times with no issues

 

[Zelph]

I'd go with 7 given that possible Free upgrade it not set in stone and lives in the land of maybes . If it's not true is not your be stuck with the mound of bullsh*t that is 8.1

Were With 7 you have a good OS

I had to buy a new computer last year and ended up having to upgrade to Windows 8.1 last year. I just installed a Windows 7 shell over it. So I've got increased performance and most of the old features as well.

 

[Majestic]

To be honest window updates generally cause more problems than they solve, which is my I disable them as soon as I re-install. I have done that since XP, so while they might not support 7 after Jan next year (don't know why they only just stopped support of XP this year) to be honest their support and updates aren't worth much. Having a solid third party firewall and virus scanner will always be better than Win updates no matter which Win you use.

I think the reason 7 is more than 8, is due to

1. They are no longer being produced.
2. It's a much more stable operating system.
3. Win7 doesn't have the security issues that 8 does.

Of course you need to pick what you feel is best for you.

 

[CABAL]

(don't know why they only just stopped support of XP this year)

Extended support for XP ended this year, mainstream support ended in 2009. 7's mainstream support ends next year and the extended support ends in 2020. It'll still receive security updates, but not newer versions of DirectX or anything like that.

I downloaded and tested the Windows 10 preview and I quite like the new start menu and the system is overall fast and responsive. The tiles in the start menu can be easily removed and the menu will shrink horizontally accordingly. You can also click and drag the top edge of the start menu to re-size it vertically as though it were a window. The existing 8.1 drivers worked just fine for my video card and it included drivers for my sound card and network card, which is a huge improvement over XP.

What I did not like is that most of the more useful online features, such as the weather app and tile, the calendar app and tile, and the universal search required linking your system account to a Microsoft account that all of this data would go through. It also takes some digging to figure out how to avoid pairing your account with a Microsoft account to begin with. Even getting to the old Control Panel to adjust my mouse speed required digging through right-click menus and it could not be accessed through the start menu by default. Since it seems this pattern originates in 8, I will be getting 7 instead of 8.1 and will seriously reconsider upgrading to 10 at all.

 

[Majestic]

They have a lot riding on 10 I think. After 7 they went backwards with 8 in many ways.

Ah extended support, I'm not all that up on those things, hell since I got sick I have fallen behind on so much. I need to so a MSFC version update, they are up to XF 1.4.2 now. I also need to get a few other things sorted as well. So I think I'll have a busy couple of months ahead of me.

 

[CABAL]

The Windows 10 Consumer Preview event is tomorrow. A new preview build will likely also be released that will be more in-line with the final home version.

 

[CABAL]

Today's event had a major announcement: Windows 10 will be a free upgrade for all 7, 8.1, and Windows Phone 8 users. Additionally, this will continue for all new versions of the OS. 11 will be free for 10 users, 12 will be free for 11 users, etc. Since 10 features reduced resource use compared to 7 and 8.1 and it comes with DirectX 12, the primary goal of which is to also reduce overhead, upgrading to 10 is something I would encourage you to consider doing. Watch out for that Microsoft account stuff, though.

 

[Rifraf]

Still using Vista here and having toyed with upgrading to 7 before it's gone, this news sounds promising enough to wait for 10. I know it's still early, but I do value your opinion and you seem pretty positive about it so far. Thanks for the news

 

[Hellkite]

http://www.cnet.com/videos/link/MvPX4C1RR5xvkSpWA1PvDgEUI_G7VZqM/

Microsoft will offer free upgrades to Windows 10 -- the next version of its operating system -- first for Windows 8.1 users and then for Windows 7 users, the company announced Wednesday.

In the first year the software is available, the company will upgrade any devices running Windows 8 to Windows 10 for free, according to Terry Myerson, Microsoft's executive vice president of operating systems. The free upgrade will also apply to Windows 7 devices and Windows Phone 8.1 devices.

Source CNet

 

[CABAL]

Thanks for the links, HK.

Still using Vista here and having toyed with upgrading to 7 before it's gone, this news sounds promising enough to wait for 10. I know it's still early, but I do value your opinion and you seem pretty positive about it so far. Thanks for the news

I still have Vista on a laptop and it's surprisingly solid with the service packs. I've had compatibility issues with network security, though, so I had to add a Linux install.

If you do get 10, fair warning, most of the apps that come with it that use the internet, such as the weather app, require a Microsoft account and I'm personally wary of having that much personal information on some server.