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The Secret Race

Knight

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Oooh!
Idea - how about a competition?
Basically, a thread where everyone puts in there guess for who the new race is, left open for a set deadline, at which point the secret race will be revealed.

whoever guessed right, wins doughnuts...
 

Majestic

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I know this isn't the case, but it would have been nice to see the Mirror Universe Klingon-Cardassian Alliance. ;)

Maybe an idea for an expansion pack or something?

Also:

Not a bad idea and would really only require a few texture changes to work, it might be a possibility after the intial release if Syf and I decide we would like to do it.

Hello:
I know I can get beaten for this, but I suggest that the mod producers must say no to everything even if we can get the answer, because even if we all want to know who is the secret race, we also want to have the nice surprise when the mod is ready.
But here's is another guessing (I bet this is not the answer :lol: ): Species8472.

No 8472 sorry, just don't fit in with the era or storyline.

Considering the amount of races that were put forward, I highly doubt the project team will give anything away by saying it has been mentioned, or it hasn'tbeen mentioned.

It isn't like I am asking them exactly who it is, am just curious to know whether they've been mentioned at all yet.

I haven't seen them mentioned yet. If someone actually guessed them they would deserve a real big pat on the back for it.

Oooh!
Idea - how about a competition?
Basically, a thread where everyone puts in there guess for who the new race is, left open for a set deadline, at which point the secret race will be revealed.

whoever guessed right, wins doughnuts...

We aren't planning on releasing the secret race until the mod is released. And since we don't know when that will be a thread like that would remain open for an unknown amount of time.

But my all means continue posting here as it's what this thread was originally about. ;)
 

Chiletrek

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Hello:
No 8472? the I guess my bet was correct afterall (unless some of you knows a bit about my mod's storyline :silence: ).
Well, I don't think species from other universes will work either, that may ruin the whole Star Trek feel to it and turn that into other Parallels-like project (nothing wrong with it, but why to have two instead of having only one big great mod like that? :) ).
It may be a race from one of the novel too, sadly I haven't read them :( .
 

Majestic

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I can assure you the race isn't from another show, YY is all Trek Also as far as I am aware the race hasn't appeared in any book.
 
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Steven Kodaly

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I can assure you the race isn't from another show, YY is all Trek Also as far as I am aware the race hasn't appeared in any book.

Huzzah! This means, of course, that there will be no affiliation with beings pulled through the Guardian of Forever, right?
 

Syf

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No Guardian of Forever in the Mod, nor anything related. No Time travel either.
 
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Steven Kodaly

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No Guardian of Forever in the Mod, nor anything related. No Time travel either.

Not even in the plot line? Though I shouldn't knock it - you're having two different realities come into conflict, here. That should be more than enough temporal and quantum mechanics to satisfy me.
 

Syf

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Yes, the focus is dealing within the "normal" universe, and the Mirror Terrans only. But still enough to have fun with.
 

Chiletrek

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Hello:
Then maybe it may be a canon race, one of the many mentioned or even seen on-screen, but they are quite passive in the serie, but that doesn't mean they cannot play a major role at all.
 

Knight

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Not a bad idea and would really only require a few texture changes to work, it might be a possibility after the intial release if Syf and I decide we would like to do it.

Here's hoping then, that'd be cool. Plus we know the fall of the terrans must have occured somewhere around that time, so it'd make for a good addition


We aren't planning on releasing the secret race until the mod is released. And since we don't know when that will be a thread like that would remain open for an unknown amount of time.

But my all means continue posting here as it's what this thread was originally about. ;)

curses. well, it was worth a try suggesting the competition lol. perhaps Jeddy, myself and the AndrArmada team should keep it in mind lol
 

Majestic

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What I am willing to say is that they are a major race for the campaign and appear in one of the Romulan campaign missions and the majority of another campaign.

They are semi-canon and unique to Yesteryears. Something that hasn't been done before and was actually one of the 4 original races before the other 4 (Gorn, Terrans, Tholians and Cardassians) were introduced.

They are also quite powerful, and a menace to Galactic peace and are one of two races that started the problems that occur before the Terrans rear their heads.
 

Knight

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What I am willing to say is that they are a major race for the campaign and appear in one of the Romulan campaign missions and the majority of another campaign.

They are semi-canon and unique to Yesteryears. Something that hasn't been done before and was actually one of the 4 original races before the other 4 (Gorn, Terrans, Tholians and Cardassians) were introduced.

They are also quite powerful, and a menace to Galactic peace and are one of two races that started the problems that occur before the Terrans rear their heads.

is it the Suliban?
we havent seen much of those in mods at all...
 

Syf

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Suliban are canon... The secret race is Semi-canon. They exist in trek, but yet they don't. Let's just say, you will be shocked and pleased with what we have. The ships are already complete... Including a "Surprise" to please those die-hard fans. They are powerful, sneaky, and they within the acceptable limits of what "would be canon" if they ever exploited some of the things mentioned/suggested in one or more of the different series.

Here's the deal... If someone can hit the "nail on the head"... We will let you see one (after signing a full non-disclosure form, notarized in triplicate, and pledging your first born or unborn first born to a life of all good things true to trek.)
 

Majestic

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Nope, no Nazi aliens.
 

Amateur

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I'm going to make a wild guess here and say the Kzinti.

They were those feline like race in The Animated Series; and a design for them was whipped up for an enterprise episode that was never actually made. Shame really as it looked quite good.

Probably completely wrong but I thought I'd take a guess.
 

Syf

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I will tell you that you are right....:)

Right that your completely wrong.:p

But it was a good guess. I'd expect another guess on this line that may be closer to the identity of the secret race...
 
K

Kosh Naranek

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Question: How exactly can something be semi-canon? In my experience, on-screen is usually considered canon, off-screen official sources are non-canon, and things made up by fans and those non-officially approved works are fanon.

As for the topic of this thread, judging by the criteria set forth thus far, I doubt my guess of Bajorans would work.

So, here's my other guesses:

Lyrans
Caitians
Mirak
Hydrans (I'm not exactly sure, but this one may have been mentioned in this thread already)

That's all I can think of right now. Give me more time and I'll probably have more to add.
 

Syf

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Semi-canon is a "grey area". Here's a quote from the Wikipedia -

Star Trek - What is Canon
The Star Trek canon is usually defined as comprising the television series Star Trek, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: Voyager, Star Trek: Enterprise, and the ten motion pictures, and excluding everything else. However, the official Star Trek website acknowledges that this definition is not set in stone, but that the notion of what constitutes canon is fluid, open to interpretation and debate.

TV series
As a rule, all live action Star Trek TV series that aired are considered canon, while the cartoon Star Trek: The Animated Series and the planned but cancelled live action Star Trek: Phase II are not canon. However, this policy does not make clear which version of the live action shows is the canon one. Indeed, there exist longer and shorter versions of several episodes. For example, in the 1960s during the original run of TOS, an hour-long show was actually 51 minutes excluding commercials. As of 2007, an hour-long show is only about 42 minutes long. The canonicity of the missing nine minutes of material in modern airings of TOS episodes has never been addressed. Likewise, when special two-hour-long episodes are aired as two one-hour-long episodes in syndication, several minutes of material have to be cut to make time for the duplication of the opening and closing credits. The canonicity of this cut material has also never been addressed. Finally, the remastered TOS episodes released in 2006 present several visual differences from the episodes originally aired. Once again, no official statements have been made regarding the question of which version of these episodes is canon.

To further complicate matters, it has been noted that Gene Roddenberry was something of a revisionist when it came to canon. People who worked with Roddenberry remember that he used to handle canon not on a series-by-series basis nor an episode-by-episode basis, but point by point. If he changed his mind on something, or if a fact in one episode contradicted what he considered to be a more important fact in another episode, he had no problem declaring that specific point non-canon.

See, people can easily catch us, and say "well, wait a minute, in 'Balance of Terror', they knew that the Romulans had a cloaking device, and then in 'The Enterprise Incident', they don't know anything about cloaking devices, but they're gonna steal this one because it's obviously just been developed, so how the hell do you explain that?" We can't. There are some things we just can't explain, especially when it comes from the third season. So, yes, third season is canon up to the point of contradiction, or where it's just so bad... you know, we kind of cringe when people ask us, "well, what happened in 'Plato's Stepchildren', and 'And the Children Shall Lead', and 'Spock's Brain', and so on — it's like, please, he wasn't even producing it at that point. But, generally, [canon is] the original series, not really the animated, the first movie to a certain extent, the rest of the films in certain aspects but not in all... I know that it's very difficult to understand. It literally is point by point. I sometimes do not know how he's going to answer a question when I go into his office, I really do not always know, and — and I know it better probably than anybody, what it is that Gene likes and doesn't like.

— Richard Arnold, 1991

Another thing that makes canon a little confusing. Gene R. himself had a habit of decanonizing things. He didn't like the way the animated series turned out, so he proclaimed that it was not canon. He also didn't like a lot of the movies. So he didn't much consider them canon either. And – okay, I'm really going to scare you with this one – after he got TNG going, he... well... he sort of decided that some of The Original Series wasn't canon either. I had a discussion with him once, where I cited a couple things that were very clearly canon in The Original Series, and he told me he didn't think that way anymore, and that he now thought of TNG as canon wherever there was conflict between the two. He admitted it was revisionist thinking, but so be it.

— Paula Block, 2005

Another factor that contributes to blur the line between canon and non-canon is the fact that some writers like to include elements from popular non-canon works into canon episodes. Such is the case, for instance, of several concepts that first appeared in the Animated Series' episode "Yesteryear", including The Forge and the city of ShiKahr, and which were later included in the Enterprise three-part story that started with The Forge. However, despite the fact that elements borrowed from the Animated Series are considered canon, the series itself remains decidedly non-canon.

One final issue comes from text that appears on props such as computer displays, but is not legible during the episode. The transcript of the text can often be obtained through behind-the-scenes pictures and interviews. This leads to the question of whether material that is in the episodes but cannot be seen clearly should be considered canon. Although there is no answer valid for all this material, some of it at least, such as the biographical information seen on a computer display in "In a Mirror, Darkly" , has been clearly declared not to be "hard canon".

Movies
All live action Star Trek movies are considered canon. However, much like for TV series, this policy fails to note which version of the movies is canon. This leaves unknown the canonicity of scenes missing from the theatrical version of a movie but included in home releases or director's cuts. Such is the case, for instance, of a scene revealing that the character of Peter Preston was the nephew of Scotty in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.

Adding confusion to the issue is the fact that Roddenberry is quoted as saying he didn't like the movies, and "didn't much consider them canon". Unfortunately, there exists no definitive list of which movies in particular Roddenberry disliked, or what elements in them he didn't consider canon. For example, the reference book Star Trek Chronology states that Roddenberry considered elements of Star Trek V and Star Trek VI to be apocryphal, but it does not specify which particular elements in the movies Roddenberry objected to.

The canonicity of extra features found on home DVD releases, such as deleted scenes, has never been explicitly addressed.

Publications
Although books are not considered canon as a rule of thumb, some ambiguity remains. For instance, the status of reference books, such as the TNG Technical Manual pictured here, remains uncertain.

Fictional novels
The original novels published by Pocket Books are not considered part of the canon. This was a guideline set early on by Gene Roddenberry, and repeated many times by people who worked with him.

And as long as Gene Roddenberry is involved in it, he is the final word on what is Star Trek. So, for us here – Ron Moore, Jeri Taylor, everybody who works on the show – Gene is the authority. And when he says that the books, and the games, and the comics and everything else, are not gospel, but are only additional Star Trek based on his Star Trek but not part of the actual Star Trek universe that he created... they're just, you know, kinda fun to keep you occupied between episodes and between movies, whatever... but he does not want that to be considered to be sources of information for writers, working on this show, he doesn't want it to be considered part of the canon by anybody working on any other projects.

— Richard Arnold, 1991

However, even this rule is not without its exception. Two Voyager novels written by Jeri Taylor, Mosaic and Pathways, were written early on in Voyager's run and detailed the background of the show's main characters. These were meant to be canon, and to be used as references by the show's writers when fleshing out the characters. These two novels are sometimes named as exceptions to the "no book is canon" rule. However, as some of the background information mentioned in those books was never referenced in an episode of Voyager, their status as canon is still open to debate.

Novelizations
The novelizations of episodes and movies are not considered canon. This is a tradition that goes back to Gene Roddenberry himself. Roddenberry wrote a novelization of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, which included many tangents and new material that were not part of the movie, such as revealing that the woman who dies in the transporter accident was Kirk's lover. While this novel filled in many gaps left in the movie, Roddenberry is quoted as saying it should not be considered canon.


Reference books
A special case is made for non-fiction reference books such as The Star Trek Encyclopedia, Star Trek Chronology, TNG Technical Manual and DS9 Technical Manual. Unlike the novels and novelizations, these reference manuals have never been explicitly named as non-canon, and the fact that they were officially sanctioned by Paramount and given to episode writers as guides serves to give them an aura of credibility. Roddenberry himself considered it part of the "background" of Star Trek. Meanwhile, Michael Okuda and Rick Sternbach, two art and technical consultants since Star Trek: The Next Generation and the authors of several of these reference books, considered their work "pretty official". However, they stop short of naming the books canon, leaving the debate open.

Star Trek writer and co-producer Ronald D. Moore dismisses such official material as "speculation", and says that the writing staff did not consider it canon. However, Viacom, the parent company of Paramount, seems to believe differently. In a series of posts to the official Star Trek website's forums, Viacom Senior Director Harry Lang left no doubt that he considers the reference books as canon.


Other publications
The Star Trek comic books and Star Trek magazines are not considered canon.


Other material
Nothing that takes place in Star Trek games, the Star Trek: The Experience attraction, Star Trek fan productions or Trekdom is considered canon.


Roddenberry-approved material
Based on the amount of creative control Roddenberry exerted over the first seasons of Star Trek, some people argue that only Roddenberry-approved material should be considered canon. Such an approach would eliminate from canon anything Roddenberry didn't like, as well as everything made after his death, including five movies and three TV series.

However, Roddenberry himself pre-emptively rebuked such an attitude. He had hoped that Star Trek would go on after his death. As Star Trek was constantly improved by each following generation, he expected people to look back upon its humble beginnings as just that, the simple beginnings of something much bigger and better. Roddenberry clearly never intended Star Trek to be limited to his work, but to include all the hopefully superior work of future generations.


Klingon language
The Klingon language was first conceived by James Doohan for the movie Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and consisted only of a few words. Later, Marc Okrand proceeded to flesh out the sparse vocabulary into a real language, complete with grammar rules and phonology, and went so far as to publish The Klingon Dictionary and to create the Klingon Language Institute. Okrand's Klingon language was used to write the Klingon dialogues heard in several Star Trek movies and episodes. However, despite these facts, there is no exception to canon rules on record for this complete Klingon language. Therefore, only the Klingon words spoken on-screen qualify as canon.

So, what is semi-canon? Well, it seems if Gene were still alive, there would be no such thing. As we see here, Gene would randomly redefine what is canon when he pleased. Everything else would be Non-canon. But since he's not around, we have to look at the current owners of the franchise, Paramont/Viacom/CBS. That, and our own opinions. It boils down to being what we consider "almost" canon. Like the Gorn ships. They are made up... but they are all based on a Gorn ship that was going to appear on an episode of DS9. However, it got cut out of the scene during the CGI shot. What we (Majestic and Syf) call "Semi-Canon" is material that was to be part of an episode of a series or a movie, but for what ever reason, it got removed/cut/left out. Also semi-canon is something that is mentioned, but never visually seen.

So, the secret race is based on something related to it would have been part of an episode or movie.

Simply, as the developers of the mod, we will call it semi-canon if we diem so.
 
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K

Kosh Naranek

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And the races I listed?

Oh, and understood on the explanation thing.
 

Syf

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The races you listed...yeee.......NOPE!:lol: None of those are it.

The reason that question annoys me is because really, nothing is canon unless Gene said so. But he always left things to be debated. So, without his sayso, we don't really know what would be semi-canon, or if there would be anything as such. Maybe it's all really non-canon.. or more as pointed out by Kosh, Fanon. Questions without a solid answer annoy me.:p
 

Majestic

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I'm going to make a wild guess here and say the Kzinti.

They were those feline like race in The Animated Series; and a design for them was whipped up for an enterprise episode that was never actually made. Shame really as it looked quite good.

Probably completely wrong but I thought I'd take a guess.
I myself liked the ENT era design for the Kzinti ship, pity ENT didn't continue as Shran was going to be a regular ENT crew member, he was after all one of my favourite characters in the whole of Trek.

As for the 4th race, if anyone guesses it, well they would have done an excellent job. So far the race has not been mentioned.
 
K

Kosh Naranek

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Guess I need to go through my lists of Star Trek races.

Part 1 (starting with the more rarer ones I know of):

Creators (Cetacean (Whale) Probe builders)
Preservers
Guardians (Guardian Of Forever builders)
Q Continuum
Crystalline Entity
Dikironium cloud creature
Organians
Prophets
Pah-wraith
Iconian
Star Jellies (space critters from TNG's pilot episode)
Exomorphs
Denobulans


That's it for now, more to come later, lol.
 

Syf

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Those are all good.... but not it.:thumbsup:

Back (last year I think) some time ago, I posted a blurred image of one of the ships of this secret race. Now I'm not suggesting to re-read through every yesteryears post, but there are clues out there.

I think Majestic and I are having a bit too much fun with this secret race. But I can tell you that most of the ships for that race are complete, and the stations are right around the corner to completion.

Currently, I'm working on the ships and stations of the first, and last 2 races. I think everyone will like what I'm cooking up in my "Orbital facility".
 

Majestic

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The fun isn't intensional but it's there.

Oh yes I myself am focusing on getting the Federation and Klingons complete coding and graphic wise. Well when I get my PC back that is. Then I will move onto most likely the Romulans, Terrans and Gorn.

But so far I haven't seen any one correctly guess the race, all I can say is keep trying you may hit the nail on the head sooner or later.
 
K

Kosh Naranek

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But so far I haven't seen any one correctly guess the race, all I can say is keep trying you may hit the nail on the head sooner or later.

Just wondering, but what would you do if someone did manage to nail the correct answer before the release of this mod?

Oh, and here's another guess:

Voth
 
A

Aerilon

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This is really bugging me. All of those I can think of have already been suggested.

You also say semi-canon. That being the case, I would have to say that we haven't actually seen them on screen (else they'd be canon). My only thought is that they were in the Animated Series... Were they?
 

Syf

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No, they were not on the animated series.

Think "outside" the box. There are several things that are mentioned through-out the shows which never actually have been seen. Since these are semi-canon, they were never actually seen on any screen.
 
K

Kosh Naranek

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Hmm, that should make the search easier. Mentioned but not seen. *Digs up list.*

How about these?

Al-Leyan
Alcyone
Alfarian
Alkian
Alsuran
Altoran
Alvanian
Argala
Argosian
Arrithean
Bardeezan
Barolian
Bendali
Benzenite
Bara Plenum
Balduk
Baezian
B'Saari
Bowsers
Bozelian
Briori
Byzallian
Byzatium
Boray
Berellian

I'll stop it here, for now.
 
A

Aerilon

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Hmm, that should make the search easier. Mentioned but not seen. *Digs up list.*

I'll stop it here, for now.
I get the impression that listing all the races you can find isn't going to get you the answer you want. :p

They can say it has been posted, but your practically cheating :lol:
 
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