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Star Trek: Discovery

Discussion in 'Star Trek' started by Zelph, 24 Jul 2016.

  1. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    Technically? No. We haven't really seen much from that time period. However, the Connie is officially classed as a heavy cruiser. In the real world, the only things that displace more than a cruiser are battleships and carriers, neither of which describes the Crossfield-class. Additionally, the other known heavy cruiser is the Ambassador-class, which is newer and larger than the Connie, and there's a general trend of Federation ships getting bigger with each passing era; each new Enterprise is larger than the last. Lastly, of the few known Starfleet ships from that time period before DSC was released, the Constitution-class was easily the biggest.

    The Crossfield-class is officially a science vessel. The largest of those we know of that isn't the Crossfield-class is the Miranda-class, which is smaller than the Connie. The others are the minuscule Oberth and Nova classes so the Crossfield is an outlier in its categorization. Even the TNG-era Romulan science vessel is on the small side. The spore drive could partially account for why the Crossfield-class is so huge since we don't know that much about it (it does seem to require a small forest), but even then no Federation ship from any time period matches it for sheer length, being even longer than the Sovereign-class. We also know that the Sovereign and Galaxy classes are the biggest things in the fleet during the TNG era thanks to the large number of ships we see through TNG, DS9, and First Contact. Overall, I'd say the Crossfield-class seems like an outlier given what we know of established ships.

    It's harder to get a handle on the Walker-class. All we really know about it is that it's closer in age to the NX-class than anything else. For all we know, the Shenzhou may have first been deployed during the Earth-Romulan War. The Walker-class may have been a battleship or even dreadnought when it was in production, which, in combination with miniaturization of technology over the decades, could help explain the size relative to TOS and TMP ships. However, when we see the Federation fleet in the premier, the Shenzhou looks to be an average size. This would seem to indicate that the Constitution-class is a rather small ship, which is odd for something called a heavy cruiser. This also creates an oddity where the Excelsior-class isn't actually large for the time at all, and is actually rather lean, making the comment about how big it is rather incongruous.

    Ultimately, while these numbers are official, we're also getting them secondhand from Eaglemoss rather than directly from CBS or anyone involved in the show, which is unique. I'd say there are three possibilities. 1) They're right and everything we thought we knew about starship sizes is wrong. 2) The numbers are wrong and someone will release accurate ones later. 3) The numbers are right and they're going to retcon previously established starship sizes, likely including scaling the Constitution-class up to how big it is in the JJ-verse movies.
  2. StephenGDelta

    StephenGDelta Community Member Community Member

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    Anyone think they'll make any of the Discovery ships. or the ISS Charon? for Armada 2?
  3. Majestic

    Majestic MSFC's Resident Klingon Staff Member Administrator

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    I'm really enjoying the direction the show has gone this year. An huge improvement. Still not a fan of the Klingon look but I like many of us just have to ignore it, they might fix it in later seasons like they did on ENT.
    Overall I think the direction they're heading is one that makes everything make more sense in terms of the shows darker feel and even ship designs.
  4. Jetfreak

    Jetfreak Philippine Ingenuity Community Member Seraphim Build Team

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    Some of the fan theories going around are on point. Is it predictable writing or are staffers leaking information anonymously?

    Still can't make heads or tails of that"Terran flagship". Over-designed much? Or a bloddy reject from Mass Effect/Warhammer?
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  5. kjc733

    kjc733 Wibble Staff Member Forum Moderator Seraphim Build Team

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    One theory I've seen for the Charon is its reverse engineered from the Doomsday Machine.
    It really does not look like a Trek design at all though.
    As I keep saying - if you want to play with the Star Trek universe then play in that universe. If you don't want to play in the Star Trek universe, call it Space Journeys The New Iteration and be done with it. It reminds me of how Crusade was a B5 spin off, until the network decided they didn't want it to have anything to do with B5!
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  6. dvatreknerd314

    dvatreknerd314 Community Member Community Member

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    Stated as much by Saru in the third episode.

    Remember that the Crossfield is about ten years newer than the Connie, so it makes sense for it to be larger. Also consider that in this community, we focus on the length of ships for scaling in Armada 2, but the overall geometry will give you more of a clue about the amount of space it takes up. Discovery isn't all that compact, so its overall dimensions will be larger than on a ship with the same volume but more compact design.

    Highly doubtful. All we know is that by 2249, it was considered old. That doesn't mean nearly a century old. Its technology appears on-par with other vessels in service around the time of the binary stars, and if it's from the NX-era, that would mean Starfleet didn't produce much in the way of new designs after the formation of the federation, or the Walker and the others at the binary stars are much newer than the NX. I'm thinking the difference between them and Discovery is similar to the difference between the Freedom/Niagara/Challenger and the Galaxy.

    Consider its size in relation to the NX, as well as the sheer amount of time that has passed between the two designs. It is surprisingly small. This might make sense if the Connie was designed with the idea of maneuverability in mind.
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  7. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    The Constitution-class may not be much longer than the NX and the saucer may not be much bigger, but the addition of a secondary hull alone easily doubles the mass. Also, if the Connie is a small ship and the Walker-class is a better indication of the average starship size of the time, then the comment about the Excelsior being big is totally incongruous since it would actually be relatively small, being an average length but significantly leaner than the average ship.

    How about this, since I don't think we're really going to agree: If whether or not the scale of the ships makes sense for the time period is something we can literally debate for days, they probably shouldn't have been made at that scale. They could have just made them a bit smaller and we wouldn't be having this conversation. If the Walker-class was the length of the Constitution-class and the Crossfield-class was the length of the Excelsior-class I wouldn't have thought much of it.
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  8. kjc733

    kjc733 Wibble Staff Member Forum Moderator Seraphim Build Team

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    You're all over thinking this. It's very simple. The producers decided this new brand of Trek had to be for a "modern audience." For some reason, they believe that the "modern audience" collectively has some sense of inadequacy that makes them want ships to be bigger, sleeker and behave like fighters, even though this makes absolutely no sense to people with more than two brain cells to rub together and doesn't fit with the "established" Trek universe.

    I suggest you don't give yourselves headaches trying to make sense of the idiocy of modern scifi producers (lets face it, it isn't constrained to Star Trek).
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  9. Archonon

    Archonon Community Member Community Member

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    This series should be taking place in an alternate universe of Trek, like the JJ movies. If you want to keep the brand and revamp the show with new tech and new looks yet root it in an already established timeline where those changes will feel out of place, make it a different reality.

    Jeez, Star Trek is filled with parallel universes, why not take advantage of that if you are going to stir the pot with a classic recipe? An alternate universe perfectly fits the new designs and technology that is vehemently out of place with the aesthetics and advancements already known to viewers. But no, we HAD to have it be "Prime" universe because that way it will be "real" Trek unlike those "awful" JJ movies. Well guess what? This series makes the JJ movies feel like a religious adaptation of the Original Series. All they are doing is retconning canon, like Disney is doing with Star Wars, to fit the newer version of their show. Because if the show looked like it had 60s cheesy designs then everyone would think it's lame and not watch, or so the belief probably is.

    Independent of the quality that the show might have on a narrative sense, no matter what explanation they throw for their endless inconsistencies, this is NOT and will NEVER be the Prime Universe of pre-TOS. Even if they show a dual sunset gazing William Shatner vaporizing after his holo-projection crosses the galaxy to duel with Voq as the Discovery escapes, you can't retcon things just because. :rolleyes:
  10. FlowRellik

    FlowRellik Community Member Community Member

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    Tbh parallel universe would actually fit with Discovery, considering they got the spore drive and all. It would be rather interesting to even see some sort of time jump too and have them fight REAL Klingons!
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  11. Majestic

    Majestic MSFC's Resident Klingon Staff Member Administrator

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    I just like to think that Discovery and ENT are in a different parallel timeline to TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY
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  12. SciFiFan

    SciFiFan We lurk in the shadows Staff Member Forum Moderator

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    I have to admit: I think the aesthetics of the ships are wrong and the wholesale recon of the Klingon is inexcusable. That said, I do find the show entertaining and the story is captivating. Eager to see where it goes from here.
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  13. Majestic

    Majestic MSFC's Resident Klingon Staff Member Administrator

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    I've got a similar mind set. The Klingon look is what bothers me the most. I can excuse everything else and put it down to artistic licence.
    But yes I have started to really enjoy the story it really has gotten good in the past few episodes.
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  14. FlowRellik

    FlowRellik Community Member Community Member

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    Tbh the Klingons shown in DIS looks like they've been a royal family type with ancient Klingon tech, which may have been stolen tech from the HurQ invaders
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  15. Majestic

    Majestic MSFC's Resident Klingon Staff Member Administrator

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    Back before it aired I was hoping they were HurQ would've been awesome but it never happened. I think if they gradually change the makeup to something more traditional would work and if it's gradual it won't be noticed as much by non trek viewers
  16. FlowRellik

    FlowRellik Community Member Community Member

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    well it seems like for that season finale trailer they spoofed up the Klingon ship designs abit.
  17. dvatreknerd314

    dvatreknerd314 Community Member Community Member

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    Now that's how you revamp the Enterprise!
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  18. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    Indeed! I was pleasantly surprised.
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  19. Hellkite

    Hellkite Lord of Death Staff Member Administrator Seraphim Build Team Star Fighter

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  20. SciFiFan

    SciFiFan We lurk in the shadows Staff Member Forum Moderator

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    I too agree. I was concerned when the wireframe of the Defiant was shown. Not anymore.
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  21. dvatreknerd314

    dvatreknerd314 Community Member Community Member

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    This angle does seem to confirm the size of the Crossfield compared to the Connie at least
  22. marsneedswomen2008

    marsneedswomen2008 Community Member Community Member

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    Its interesting to see Refit Connie pylons (with slits in the middle) on a TOS Enterprise. The ventral saucer also appears to be two-tiered, you can make out a gap with windows as the ship approaches. I have to believe they were inspired by the Enterprise created for the cancelled Phase II series, the one created before being scrapped for the total refit seen in the films. It has similar dimensions.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: 13 Feb 2018
  23. Majestic

    Majestic MSFC's Resident Klingon Staff Member Administrator

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    Loving the Enterprise and they even got the Captain right for the year they're in. I hope we see more ships with the TOS look in the series now. Perhaps even see Discovery get a refit.
  24. FlowRellik

    FlowRellik Community Member Community Member

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    Of all the series I've seen the finale is by far the best. So many easter eggs shown, The ENTERPRISE is GORGEOUS, the Klingon slight redesign is actually perfect for those discoklinks, confirmation of different Klingons confirmed (even if it's just uniforms), Trills, Klingon anatomy confirmed correct (Twin pee) it all finally fits! All the team needs to do now is to update the graphics on the earlier episodes for DVD/Bluray.
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  25. Jetfreak

    Jetfreak Philippine Ingenuity Community Member Seraphim Build Team

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    Mind blown gents, they were even cheeky enough with the music. ;)
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  26. ISS_Enterprise_D

    ISS_Enterprise_D NCC-1701-D Community Member

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    So uhh. I loved it. Can we get more? lol
  27. dvatreknerd314

    dvatreknerd314 Community Member Community Member

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    I think I missed this bit. Could you be more specific about this?
  28. FlowRellik

    FlowRellik Community Member Community Member

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    It was when L'Rell very much held all of Qonos Hostage during her speech to unite the Klingon Empire with the other houses. Different Klingons wore different uniforms and outfits
  29. CABAL

    CABAL << ■ II ▶ >> Staff Member Site Manager Star Navigator

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    That's been there since the premiere. Each Great House has their own outfit.

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