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[WIP] Romulan Super Weapon ship

Discussion in 'Modding and Editing' started by Beta_1701, 7 May 2017.

  1. Beta_1701

    Beta_1701 Community Member Community Member

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    So after some brilliant textures from Drayzon I now have a working and I must say beautiful Thalaron beam weapons. I felt they were so nice they warranted a ship to firing it.



    Now I've got to say now I'm about as good as a child with wax crayons when it comes to doing anything artistic, but I really appreciate some feed back on my first ever true attempt that wasn't a kitbash. I built it using a mixture of stock shapes and moved the vertexs, and using vertex modelling (if that's the correct term)



    It's not finished and still missing faces but maybe there are tips people could offer?


    rom2.JPG rom3.JPG rom1.JPG

    Also on a related note, I'm having trouble with 3d storm whenever I try to open it nothing happens, I switch it to turn in xp compatibility mode (as I'm on windows 10) and that seems to have fixed it. But when I view anything that isn't stock the sod is texture less. FYI I'm got fleetops installed and I'm running rifraf's upgrade mod and I've tried the storm exe in both directories and the same thing happens.
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  2. kjc733

    kjc733 Wibble Staff Member Forum Moderator Seraphim build team

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    It's a lot better than my first mesh! You'll be pleased to know that moving vertices from an existing shape is how most of us do our modelling.

    Onto the ship. It's a nice start, and I can see some Valdore ancestry going on there, however in it's current form it looks older than the Valdore. This is because it still has a lot of straight edges and is still very blocky.

    As an example, lets take the nacelles. From the side you've done a very nice job making a nice continuous curve (and it is a very nice job, I couldn't do better with a low poly mesh). Hoever if you look at the front you'll see it looks square. You need to bevel the edges and corners a bit (i.e. round them off). Good rounding and blending, even when it is often subtle, can really make the difference between a professional vs amateurish looking design.

    Other suggestions:
    - in general make wings and pylons thicker at the root than at the tip. In Star Trek we have SIF and other space magic, but it looks more "real" if you include normal structural realities.
    - Make the thaleron generator (I assume that's what the central rings are meant to be) a more integral part of the ship. Blend the wings and neck into the rings.
    - The back end (the semi circle from the top view) "looks" low poly. If you want a nice curve then you'll need to add more polygons and smooth it out. However, I'd suggest making a feature of it, don't make it a semi circle, instead pull it out so it's a sharp point, or maybe a deep saw tooth.
    - In fact, I'd suggest doing the same with the points at the wing roots (top view again). Drag the points forward and make a feature of them.
    - I suggest moving the nose section of the ship a little further forward, the whole ship feels a little squashed to me. Maybe also making the nose a little thicker as it feels a little 2 dimensional.

    In short, good start, you have curves in good places, I suggest added a few sharp angles to make it look more aggressive. If you need inspiration I suggest Hellkites shipyard thread, he has some very nice Romulan designs scattered about in there.
    http://www.msfc.com.au/community/index.php?threads/hellkite-shipyard.284/
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  3. Beta_1701

    Beta_1701 Community Member Community Member

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    I can't thank you enough for the advice I'll take what you've said on board and have another wack at it.

    I'd like to just discuss specific point in detail, but since I don't think I can start a converstaion yet and I wouldn't want to bug too much. I'll just ask the high lights.

    You said the general process works using a exsiting shape and moving vertices? Is there a particular shape to start with? E.g do you start with a cylinder and the flattern? Or someting more basic like a box and split to make more vertices?

    You talked about rounding the nacelles? Is the best way to do this to split some of the faces and round the vertices? Also would people typically do this rounding free hand, or with fixed movements? Or with scaling?
  4. kjc733

    kjc733 Wibble Staff Member Forum Moderator Seraphim build team

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    As with all things - it depends. :rolleyes:

    I personally usually start with a cube, take a rough estimate at how many subdivisions it will require and then go from there. The exception to this is something more or less circular, in which case I start with a cylinder.
    Regarding beveling, it again will depend on what effect you are going for. I've attached an image (Shapes.png) to show you options, obviously the more subdivisions you have the more complex curves you can make - but it increases the poly count.
    Circle_Extrude.png shows how I started with a cylinder and then extruded out of the back. Some changes are then usually required because the edges will all reach back to the centre, which makes changing of gradient difficult. This is why I prefer to start with cubes.
    Seeker_Construction.png shows a different approach. The Seeker class has a flat plate going through it. So I made a cube with one subdivision in height and more in width/depth, shaped into a the rough plan view, then extruded up/down to give the hull depth and out to make the saucer.
    The big thing to remember is to always have an equal number of subdivisions each side of the centreline - that way you can ensure symmetry.

    Attached Files:

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  5. Beta_1701

    Beta_1701 Community Member Community Member

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    Thank you so much kjc733 (I'd like you post but I don't see how). That tutorial was so helpful and really well explained. I thought I'd update you. I've decided to start from scratch and work backwards. So i started with a cylinder and then move the hard points around.

    I used a top/front/side view a a random warbird as a guide, and adjusted the side points first, then the front and ending with side. I think I've got a nice shape.

    I was thinking of pulling back from the back to create the neck and then merge that with a new shape which would cover the wings. Or would you suggest something else?

    top.JPG front.JPG side.JPG

    Also that seeker ship looks amazing! I'm assuming I'm still a few post away from downloading that beauty...:(
  6. kjc733

    kjc733 Wibble Staff Member Forum Moderator Seraphim build team

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    Likes are in the bottom right corner of a post, along with Quote and Reply.

    Once again, it depends :rolleyes:
    Firstly, what sort of look are you going for?
    The neck on a D'deridex is about the same thickness as the wing, so in that scenario I would tend to extrude out from the neck and make it a single piece. The neck on a D7 or K'Tinga looks clearly bolted on and I would make those as separate pieces.
    In general an industrial look will have lots of steps and corners and layers, so making as lots of separate pieces can be a good idea. An organic look needs to have some flow about it, so to achieve a nice blended design you almost always should extrude.
    Secondly, how skilled are you and how well can you use your tools?
    Making a design from lots of separate parts will be easier to uv map (especially in ms3d), whereas once it's mapped a single piece can be easier to texture as you don't have to worry about where the texture moves from one component to another. However this isn't always true.
    It's usually easier to fix errors if your design is made from lots of separate components. If its one piece and you massively screw up you could end up having to bin the whole thing (in extreme cases!)
    Thirdly, are you intending to reuse components? A D'D has two parallel wings of the same planform, so whilst I said above that I'd extrude out from the neck, I might actually prefer to make the wing as a separate part so I could duplicate and invert it. It halves the building and more importantly it halves the uv mapping!
    The choice is yours :thumbsup:

    The Seeker is indeed a ship for A2 that is in the downloads section. If you dig around the site you'll find it's actually a collaborative project, designed by Hellkite, built by myself and textured by Jetfreak. There are some requirements to gaining access to the downloads section:
    • Create an introduction thread
    • Post at least 30 posts of reasonable size (no spamming small posts as they'll be merged or deleted)
    • Active for 7 days and made some contribution to the forums
    • Have at least 3 likes
    Keep going the way you are and you'll soon be able to take a look.
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  7. Beta_1701

    Beta_1701 Community Member Community Member

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    Ok so I think I've made good progress, still kind of want the rings but I don't know where they could go. I can half them but I still don't know where'd they go? In the end this seems to look like a reman romulan hyrbid which isn't what I was going for but now its gone that way I kinda like it.

    Attached Files:

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  8. kjc733

    kjc733 Wibble Staff Member Forum Moderator Seraphim build team

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    Wow, that is definitely a step up from your last design. I sense great things in this ones future.
    I'm getting a Scimitar vibe from it (I think because of the extreme anhedral wings) but the bow really places it in the Romulan lineage. The design also puts it as a Valdore era ship.
    I notice you've decided against the double hull. Personally I've never liked the bi-plane D'Deridex and most of its fan spawns although I can see how the loss of the lower wing makes integrating the rings harder. The deeper bow would also make it difficult to place the rings as the beak will cut across the field of fire.
    If you want rings I have two suggestions:
    1. A double set of rings slung under the "shoulders"
    2. Mount a single set of rings above the spine
    Smaller sets of rings in both cases.
    Keep it up :thumbsup:
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  9. LordChicken

    LordChicken Colonel Sanders Community Member

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    Looking good so far! About what time period is this from?
  10. Beta_1701

    Beta_1701 Community Member Community Member

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    Going for a very just post nem with a romulan reman vibe. Not looking forward to texturing her though....

    I've tried mounting the cannon on the top, and I'm going to try it on the wings too and then compare.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: 23 May 2017 at 03:24
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  11. Drayzon

    Drayzon New Member

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    Indeed this is looking good, if its any help to you i am kinda good with textures, if you could supply a map of where textures would go on the model as and when your happy with it, i can take a shot at making something if you like.
  12. Beta_1701

    Beta_1701 Community Member Community Member

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    I'll just openned a conversation with you but I'm not sure if you'll be able to see it...if you can't send message me back on this thread and I'll get back to you.

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