Research Station Build Hardpoints

[Rifraf]

I'm looking to see if anyone can assist me with a build hardpoint question for research. I have a station that in place of say "hardpoint01" "hardpoint02" etc when building research pods they put "scene root" "scene root" etc.. If I open the model in ms3d scene root is the main root that all other entries branch off from. So if I build a research pod exactly where will it get built if it's build point is scene root?

 

[CABAL]

It will appear at that core Scene Root node, which is probably at 0,0,0 on the model. Basically, they'll all pop up dead center and overlapping.

 

[dvatreknerd314]

I've also noticed something odd when using MS3d and I don't know if it applies to you or not. If you want the hardpoints rotated correctly, you need to add child nodes onto each research hardpoint and make them point in the direction you want your pod to be oriented...then flip the x axis. Again, don't know if this is just me or what, but thought this might be helpful

 

[Rifraf]

It will appear at that core Scene Root node, which is probably at 0,0,0 on the model. Basically, they'll all pop up dead center and overlapping.

In my experience when multiple pods build at the same point each successive pod destroys the pod that was already there and the AI will rebuild that pod destroying the new pod and on and on. I just wanted to get an idea of what it would do. I may just pick a few random hardpoints to use as pod build points. I've used Major Payne's shrunken pods anyway from BI:VR so you can't hardly see them anyway. Thanks Cabal

I've also noticed something odd when using MS3d and I don't know if it applies to you or not. If you want the hardpoints rotated correctly, you need to add child nodes onto each research hardpoint and make them point in the direction you want your pod to be oriented...then flip the x axis. Again, don't know if this is just me or what, but thought this might be helpful

I had only limited success rotating hardpoints in ms3d. Some worked ok and others wouldn't. I later found a hardpoint rotation tut that requires the use of multiple child nodes I think by Fahres, but haven't tried that method yet. I gave up at the time and just shrunk the research pods so you can't see them. I may re visit it though so thank you.

 

[Chiletrek]

Hello:
Fahres's tutorial might be a bit tricky to understand at first, but once you make it once, then all future hardpointings will come more naturally, I say this because I learned using that tutorial... however, MS3d is still a bit tricky so be careful when you rotate so always keep a look at the axis of every joint (every joint you make has an axis like the main program has, it helps to keep the orientations).

The sceneroot problem is new to me, maybe there is problem when a model is done in another program or something but no clue. The best thing is to either start renaming the joints where the pods are or to redo the all hardpoiting again .

I cannot remember correctly right now, but I think the hardpoint where each pod goes in the lab matches the scene_root of the pod itself.

 

[Terradyhne]

If the scene root-node stands in your station odf for where the pods connect than those will connect to that node. to make this clear i have made two pics in 3DS max (not much difference to MSD3 with nodes, only in the names of some), those are of the pod himself but for basic understandig its good enough, i think.
if you want the pod connect at the center, the root-node (in MS3D its scene root-node) needs to be at center: PIC1:
if you see the pod as your station in this pic, than where the root-node is placed, your res.pods will connect there, with scene root standing in the odf for the connection point of the res.pod.

if you want the pod connect at the rim, the root-node (in MS3D its scene root-node) needs to be at the rim: PIC2:

hope that helps a bit to understand this, as this is verry crude.

 

[dvatreknerd314]

And I'm guessing the rotation of the hardpoint on the research station will affect the pod's orientation?

 

[Terradyhne]

And I'm guessing the rotation of the hardpoint on the research station will affect the pod's orientation?

yepp, thats correct

 

[Rifraf]

I appreciate the help Terradyhne, but it is a bit confusing for me. I had to actually just put it all away for now and work on the rest of my mod and come back with fresh perspectives. I use Major Payne's tut and one by Fahres to rotate joints, but I just couldn't grasp it all/get things to work.

To go with what DVA said about the rotation of the hardpoints, I could get about half the pods to rotate to the proper position, but no matter what I did the other half absolutely would not cooperate. I finally took the route Major Payne did and shrunk the pods to be barely visible and chalked it up to not advertising what is being researched. I would like to revisit this though and do appreciate your help and input.

 

[kjc733]

Not having completed a science station (it's awaiting textures and hps) I may be a bit naive with this, but couldn't you just:

a. Design symmetrical pods (I never liked the A2 pods)
b. When you make the pods build them so that they face the correct way (I assume the A2 standard pods are done like this because if you set them all to the same sod you'll see they have the same orientation no matter which arm they are built on)

I'm taking both of these approaches with my science station, it never even occurred to me to rotate the hps.

 

[Terradyhne]

I appreciate the help Terradyhne, but it is a bit confusing for me. I had to actually just put it all away for now and work on the rest of my mod and come back with fresh perspectives. I use Major Payne's tut and one by Fahres to rotate joints, but I just couldn't grasp it all/get things to work.

To go with what DVA said about the rotation of the hardpoints, I could get about half the pods to rotate to the proper position, but no matter what I did the other half absolutely would not cooperate. I finally took the route Major Payne did and shrunk the pods to be barely visible and chalked it up to not advertising what is being researched. I would like to revisit this though and do appreciate your help and input.

the problem is that MS3D is not working like 3ds max in the part of rotating those points and the basic thing of those points directions is confusing enough. Such problems are the reason why i only build my models in MS3D and all the other things i use 3ds max for. though not all of you have a version of 3ds max, to do it like me. sorry that i can't provide more help here.

 

[Majestic]

Rifraf, how I rotate them is to add a child node to the hardpoint at the front of the joint, then move the child node to where I want the hardpoint to point. I rename the new node to h_null01 and then name the next one (if rotating more than one hardpoint) to h_null02 etc.

Then I export the model to a temp sod file (000.sod) and then I delete all the h_null points and re-export to an A2 sod such as f_cruise1.sod

This method has worked for years for me and while a pain it does do the job. Just remember not to save the MS3D file after deleting the h_null points or otherwise you'll have to re-rotate the hardpoints.

 

[Rifraf]

I need some more help with rotating a joint on a shipyard. The ship builds then exits out of the side of the yard instead of the front. I feel about useless if I can't rotate a simple joint by following everyone's tips.

I go to the joints tab and double click the joint I want to rotate. Then go to the model tab and click joint and click in one of the view ports to place my child node. Go back to the joints tab and click my new joint then go back to model tab to rotate my new joint. First thing is how do I know where the "front" of the joint I want to rotate is? Then when I move the new joint around I can't see that it even moves the actual joint I want rotated.

Do I have to rename my new joint h_null01 instead of leaving it named whatever it defaults to? I could really use some tips. Thanks again in advance

 

[dvatreknerd314]

Are you using Milkshape?

 

[Rifraf]

Are you using Milkshape?

Yes, I'm using Milkshape. As soon as I went to bed after posting this I knew I forgot details. If I have a talent it's forgetting the details.

For more info, I'm trying to rotate the "build" hardpoint on the model so the ship comes out the front instead of the side. Now, I can rotate it, but either the ship builds upside down or comes out of another side. I just can't finagle it to the proper rotation. I guess the first and biggest hurdle is how do I know where the "front" of a node is?

 

[dvatreknerd314]

Node rotation in milkshape is picky. The exporter tends to flip the rotation of a node along the x axis, but the y and z axes remain intact. Also, the rotation of every node in the model is reset upon adding a new node. To keep the node's rotation from resetting, you need to have a dummy node off the rotated node to keep the rotation intact.

 

[Rifraf]

I think that's what I did? I added a new joint to the node I want to rotate. I think it defaults the name of the new joint to joint28 or something. So that's my dummy node right? That I use to manipulate the original node I want moved?

 

[Majestic]

If you want the ship to come out the front, why not just delete the build hardpoint, add a new one in and rename it to build?

Also check for any lines in the odf file that might cause any issues.

 

[Rifraf]

Majestic, I tried deleting the "build" hardpoint and then adding it back to the h_hardpoints node and it just appeared in the same orientation. Oh well, I really appreciate the help guys. I just have to face the fact that I can't comprehend how to get that to work.

It's a Romulan shipyard by Achilles from his AOW mod. Thankfully Major Payne used the same yard in his Borg Incursion VR mod and he re-oriented the yard and build point so I'm good to go. Just had to add phong lighting to the model and lightmap the texture.

On another note I used MaP's Romulan mining station which was turned 30 degrees or so off center so when the mining freighter built it was straight ahead and going through the side of the station. I found how to rotate the entire station back to normal heading and then just rotated the entire h_sceenroot node to match and at least that worked. Thank you all again. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions to everyone's chagrin

 

[Majestic]

Sometimes you'll find it easier to re-hardpoint the entire model. I used to do that a lot when working with others models.

 

[Chiletrek]

Hello:
I agree with Majestic, sometimes is better to re-hardpoint everything... although I use that as a last resort .

Also, try to remember that Milkshape gives every axis a distinctive color, and the joints have those same colors, try to use those as guide aswell. Keep it up!