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Invincible ***possible Spoilers***

  • Thread starter Paulhanselluk
  • Start date
P

Paulhanselluk

Deleted Due to Inactivity
Former MSFC Member
Ok I've just finished reading Invicible, an I cant help but feel let down on a major scale, the whole book was just too weak.
Here's what really got my goat (so to speak) while I was reading it:-
* Luke Skywalker - unable to do anything to Cadeus cos he has had a brush with the dark side when he killed Lumya (I think thats spelt right) - what a load of crap. I take it he didn't read "The Unifying Force", where it was established that there is no Light or Dark side to the force, just the way you use it (ie a jedi should be able to use force lightning like a sith).
* Where the hell did the SSD Megador come from?, was it just lying around spare and Cadeus thought it may be useful?, I seriously can remember reading about in any other books (if iam wrong, iam wrong but...)
* Han and Leia, being so calm about killing Cadeus (give me a break), cos they say say hes not Jacen and that he died fighting the Vong (crap!).
* Jaina being able to take on a Sith lord after only a months training with Fett (I wonder if she has considered joing the SAS?).
* Where in the galaxy were Kyle Katarn, Corran Horn & Kyp Durron, second to Luke, are they not some of the most powerful masters in the Jedi order and yet we only get fleeting references about them and they play no major roles, even with a sith lord running things, yeah right....
* Jag Fel being appointed leader of the Remanant Council, yes that would really happen, he's not even Imperial!
* The GA appointing Admiral Daala as cheif of state, do I really need to say more.....

needles to say I feel really let down by this ending, I know the author has tried his best to tie up all the lose endings from this series ( and the above is not a pop at the author), but for me it just didn't work, lets hope the next series is a little better.
 

Lord_Trekie

Bah Humbug!
Joined
1 Oct 2006
Messages
1,876
I just finished it about ten minutes ago, and I've got pretty much the same thoughts, the books seems rushed, and to be honest I'm considering asking Barnes and Noble for my money back because it was that much of a waste...
 

Knight

"What? Too flashy?"
Joined
27 Jun 2006
Messages
2,404
I've just read the whole book from beginning to end, and here are my thoughts, and some responses to Pauls (sorry Paul lol)
Ok I've just finished reading Invicible, an I cant help but feel let down on a major scale, the whole book was just too weak.
Here's what really got my goat (so to speak) while I was reading it:-
* Luke Skywalker - unable to do anything to Cadeus cos he has had a brush with the dark side when he killed Lumya (I think thats spelt right) - what a load of crap. I take it he didn't read "The Unifying Force", where it was established that there is no Light or Dark side to the force, just the way you use it (ie a jedi should be able to use force lightning like a sith).
I'm gonna have to say that you missed the Dark Nest trilogy books? yes, they were weak, BUT Luke felt the jedi had made a mistake with that theory - as such, the light side/dark side stuff came back into play.

* Where the hell did the SSD Megador come from?, was it just lying around spare and Cadeus thought it may be useful?, I seriously can remember reading about in any other books (if iam wrong, iam wrong but...)
it's never been mentioned before; however the author does specify that it belongs to the Imperial Remnant, not Caedus

* Han and Leia, being so calm about killing Cadeus (give me a break), cos they say say hes not Jacen and that he died fighting the Vong (crap!).
I don't really have a response to that...that was a bit weak, although it has been built to throughout the series.

* Jaina being able to take on a Sith lord after only a months training with Fett (I wonder if she has considered joing the SAS?).
While I agree it was a little unbelievable, i think it was made fairly obvious that Luke's little 'sleeping' breaks were actually Luke helping Jaina out - explaining her increase in force power, and then rapid weakening after he had to 'wake up' from his trances. it also explains why Caedus saw Luke, not Jaina in that fight. as for the second, Caedus wasn't focusing on the fight, he was distracted by the Moff's plan to use a nanovirus to kill Tenel Ka and their daughter.

* Where in the galaxy were Kyle Katarn, Corran Horn & Kyp Durron, second to Luke, are they not some of the most powerful masters in the Jedi order and yet we only get fleeting references about them and they play no major roles, even with a sith lord running things, yeah right....
Jacen had training that none of them had, as part of his 'soul seeking' journey. That said, Kyle was likely still nursing injuries from his previous battle with Jacen, in which he was nearly killed. no explanation on the other two, except for the Skywalker-Solo clan pretty much saying Jacen was their problem, not the Order's...

* Jag Fel being appointed leader of the Remanant Council, yes that would really happen, he's not even Imperial!
Yeah, that was pretty weak, and I think it was inspired by the 'Legacy' comics, where the Fel dynasty is in charge of the Empire.

* The GA appointing Admiral Daala as cheif of state, do I really need to say more.....
That one did seem to come out of left field lol. what happened to Niathal?? and why the hell would they have as Chief of State... Supreme Commander of the GA Navy i could believe, but chief of state seems unlikely.

I have to agree that the ending was a little weak, but I didnt think it was that bad a book, albeit a little short...
 

Lord_Trekie

Bah Humbug!
Joined
1 Oct 2006
Messages
1,876
I felt that the first half of the book was written quite well, but the second seemed like it was written by a completely different person, and like I said, felt really rushed...

And while I buy that explanation for the Megador, I don't think it's likely they had one still...
 
P

Paulhanselluk

Deleted Due to Inactivity
Former MSFC Member
I've just read the whole book from beginning to end, and here are my thoughts, and some responses to Pauls (sorry Paul lol)
Ok I've just finished reading Invicible, an I cant help but feel let down on a major scale, the whole book was just too weak.
Here's what really got my goat (so to speak) while I was reading it:-
* Luke Skywalker - unable to do anything to Cadeus cos he has had a brush with the dark side when he killed Lumya (I think thats spelt right) - what a load of crap. I take it he didn't read "The Unifying Force", where it was established that there is no Light or Dark side to the force, just the way you use it (ie a jedi should be able to use force lightning like a sith).
I'm gonna have to say that you missed the Dark Nest trilogy books? yes, they were weak, BUT Luke felt the jedi had made a mistake with that theory - as such, the light side/dark side stuff came back into play.

* Where the hell did the SSD Megador come from?, was it just lying around spare and Cadeus thought it may be useful?, I seriously can remember reading about in any other books (if iam wrong, iam wrong but...)
it's never been mentioned before; however the author does specify that it belongs to the Imperial Remnant, not Caedus

* Han and Leia, being so calm about killing Cadeus (give me a break), cos they say say hes not Jacen and that he died fighting the Vong (crap!).
I don't really have a response to that...that was a bit weak, although it has been built to throughout the series.

* Jaina being able to take on a Sith lord after only a months training with Fett (I wonder if she has considered joing the SAS?).
While I agree it was a little unbelievable, i think it was made fairly obvious that Luke's little 'sleeping' breaks were actually Luke helping Jaina out - explaining her increase in force power, and then rapid weakening after he had to 'wake up' from his trances. it also explains why Caedus saw Luke, not Jaina in that fight. as for the second, Caedus wasn't focusing on the fight, he was distracted by the Moff's plan to use a nanovirus to kill Tenel Ka and their daughter.

* Where in the galaxy were Kyle Katarn, Corran Horn & Kyp Durron, second to Luke, are they not some of the most powerful masters in the Jedi order and yet we only get fleeting references about them and they play no major roles, even with a sith lord running things, yeah right....
Jacen had training that none of them had, as part of his 'soul seeking' journey. That said, Kyle was likely still nursing injuries from his previous battle with Jacen, in which he was nearly killed. no explanation on the other two, except for the Skywalker-Solo clan pretty much saying Jacen was their problem, not the Order's...

* Jag Fel being appointed leader of the Remanant Council, yes that would really happen, he's not even Imperial!
Yeah, that was pretty weak, and I think it was inspired by the 'Legacy' comics, where the Fel dynasty is in charge of the Empire.

* The GA appointing Admiral Daala as cheif of state, do I really need to say more.....
That one did seem to come out of left field lol. what happened to Niathal?? and why the hell would they have as Chief of State... Supreme Commander of the GA Navy i could believe, but chief of state seems unlikely.

I have to agree that the ending was a little weak, but I didnt think it was that bad a book, albeit a little short...


Yeah I did read the dark nest trilogy, but its still poor for a reason, and could have been done better.

I know the SSD Megador was from the remanant, but still SSD arn't just lying around are they.

I think it was summed up best by the word "rushed"
 

Knight

"What? Too flashy?"
Joined
27 Jun 2006
Messages
2,404
Yeah I did read the dark nest trilogy, but its still poor for a reason, and could have been done better.

I know the SSD Megador was from the remanant, but still SSD arn't just lying around are they.

I think it was summed up best by the word "rushed"

true, my point was that theyd done away with the whole "no dark side" theory that was introduced by Jacen and Vergere after he escaped the Vong.

As for the Megador, your right, they aren't just lying around, however it has been seen previously that the Empire is capable of hiding construction of SSD's from the Alliance = case in point being the Razor's Kiss, the SSD that Zsinsj was after in the Wraith Squadron books.
 
C

Cylon

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Former MSFC Member
I quite enjoyed it, though i thought the jokes and the start of each chapter declined in quality as it went on.
 
P

Paulhanselluk

Deleted Due to Inactivity
Former MSFC Member
As for the Megador, your right, they aren't just lying around, however it has been seen previously that the Empire is capable of hiding construction of SSD's from the Alliance = case in point being the Razor's Kiss, the SSD that Zsinsj was after in the Wraith Squadron books.


You would have thought they would have found a way to hide the construction of say a "Death Star", that would have been more impactful....
 

Knight

"What? Too flashy?"
Joined
27 Jun 2006
Messages
2,404
You would have thought they would have found a way to hide the construction of say a "Death Star", that would have been more impactful....

I think they learnt a few things from that though, and there are a couple of considerations:

1) A death star is (likely) an astronomically expensive weapon to build, and previously, 4 examples (Death Star I, DS II, the smaller prototype version as seen in the Jedi Academy trilogy (i think... Daala's first appearance?) and the Hutts 'Darksaber' project, which was the central weapon of the death star in a more cylindrical vessel, named dark saber for its resemblance to a lightsaber) have been destroyed by much smaller, cheaper forces - though I think Darksaber actually failed an blew itself up if i recall....

2) The Empire isn't in an as strong position as they were when the first 2 were constructed... they may no longer have the resources to build such a weapon. We're only theorising that Megador was built recently, for all we know it was around during the Vong War (though yes, never mentioned)

Of course, this is all just theorising and conjecture...
 
P

Paulhanselluk

Deleted Due to Inactivity
Former MSFC Member
I think they learnt a few things from that though, and there are a couple of considerations:

1) A death star is (likely) an astronomically expensive weapon to build, and previously, 4 examples (Death Star I, DS II, the smaller prototype version as seen in the Jedi Academy trilogy (i think... Daala's first appearance?) and the Hutts 'Darksaber' project, which was the central weapon of the death star in a more cylindrical vessel, named dark saber for its resemblance to a lightsaber) have been destroyed by much smaller, cheaper forces - though I think Darksaber actually failed an blew itself up if i recall....

2) The Empire isn't in an as strong position as they were when the first 2 were constructed... they may no longer have the resources to build such a weapon. We're only theorising that Megador was built recently, for all we know it was around during the Vong War (though yes, never mentioned)

Of course, this is all just theorising and conjecture...

I was being flipant.....
 

Knight

"What? Too flashy?"
Joined
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Messages
2,404
I was being flipant.....

i'd figured, but it was still a valid point lol. besides, how do we know there isnt another out there somewhere?
The Republic didnt know about the one hiding with Daala after all...
 

Lord_Trekie

Bah Humbug!
Joined
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Messages
1,876
I consider all the SSD's that have popped up as plot devices that are losing their real sense of doom. Lusanyka and Executor are the only two I consider legit...
 

Knight

"What? Too flashy?"
Joined
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Messages
2,404
I consider all the SSD's that have popped up as plot devices that are losing their real sense of doom. Lusanyka and Executor are the only two I consider legit...

Lusankya, Executor and Iron Fist. Not so much the others. Not even the Razors Kiss, which was blown to bits within an hour of Zsinj stealing it
 

Knight

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i should find my kill stats sometime for it.

On X-Wing vs Tie Fighter, I had 3 SSD kills. and one of them was solo, without AI help (that ignore current target command really did help lol)
 
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Paulhanselluk

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Former MSFC Member
Has anyone heard anything about what the next set of books will be, or are they taking a break form the series?
 

Knight

"What? Too flashy?"
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Sounds interesting. Better keep an eye out for that one :)
 

Knight

"What? Too flashy?"
Joined
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Messages
2,404
Something new just occured to me:

The imperials released a nano-virus on Mandalore targetting Fett, neither he or his grand-daughter can ever go back on the planet, or they'll die.

We know that at least some of the clone commandos survived from the previous books, and that at least one of them had a child (Republic Commando novels/Redemption) - that child is now on Mandalore as an adult, he was the one pushing for Fett to come back to Mandalore and call the Mandoa back together in an earlier book. Surely that means he's dead now, as he's related to Fett (his father was a clone of Jango, just as Boba was)?

Anyone else think that part sucked?
 
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Paulhanselluk

Deleted Due to Inactivity
Former MSFC Member
Something new just occured to me:

The imperials released a nano-virus on Mandalore targetting Fett, neither he or his grand-daughter can ever go back on the planet, or they'll die.

We know that at least some of the clone commandos survived from the previous books, and that at least one of them had a child (Republic Commando novels/Redemption) - that child is now on Mandalore as an adult, he was the one pushing for Fett to come back to Mandalore and call the Mandoa back together in an earlier book. Surely that means he's dead now, as he's related to Fett (his father was a clone of Jango, just as Boba was)?

Anyone else think that part sucked?


Yes you are right, I never thought about that part. it does "suck".
 

Lord_Trekie

Bah Humbug!
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Messages
1,876
I think that whole genetically targeted weapon crap was just that, crap, it can be done, but I doubt as effective or as fast as the imps make it look...
 

Knight

"What? Too flashy?"
Joined
27 Jun 2006
Messages
2,404
I think that whole genetically targeted weapon crap was just that, crap, it can be done, but I doubt as effective or as fast as the imps make it look...

I agree. the genetic weapon/nanovirus thing was a bit rubbish. not a fan of that. We saw the nanotech originally during the darknest trilogy.

I have to think the Imps had a head start on that - the first Republic Commando novel, their task was to capture a bio-engineer from the Seperatists who was working on a bio-weapon to target the clones, which all used Fett's DNA, the Imps must have had that on file still from Palpatines days, and they must know the original clones were based on Fett. perhaps they found some way to use that, and modify the nano-virus to work the same way?

Regardless, it still wasn't a great plot point, it seemed very un-necessary and tbh, it reeked of not being properly thought out beyond being the vehicle to keep Fett as basically nomadic, instead of based off one planet.
 
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