How to Balance...?

[K_merse]

I have to face the fact: I have not the slightest idea how to balance out a mod... I tried to make excel sheets about the hitpoints of the ships and the expected damage they can deal, but somehow it just doesn't get together.
How do you balance out a mod? I mean it is easy to adjust a ship to an existing balance setup, but how do you start a mod balance from scratch? How do you calculate with everything? Hitpoints, regeneration, various weapon outputs, construction time and costs, dilithium mining speed etc... Just thinking about all of them makes me dizzy And at the mean time it has to feel realistic, so a Galaxy can't blow up after two shots but it can't be a powerhouse either...

So help me guys! Do you have an editor or at least some suggestions?

 

[Amateur]

Note: I am incredibly tired for some reason, and there may be parts of the following that make less sense than postmodern poetry. My apologies for that, and I'll attempt a more developed answer in the morning .

I choose one ship - usually for the Federation - and work out it's weaponry, hull, shields, cost. Everything. This is now my baseline, what I scale everything to. The other ships for that race fall into place by being either weaker or stronger than the one I started with. How much they differ is something I work out in a spreadsheet, where I can directly compare all of the values. Sometimes, if I'm feeling clever, I make a formula - but that rarely works how I want it to.

When that race is done, I move on to the next. If they have practically the same build list (what I call the 'stock pattern') then I add very slight variations to the numbers and call it a day. A medium cruiser, you see, needs to be as strong as the other medium cruisers - otherwise it wouldn't be called one.

If I go for the 'FlOps' pattern', then it becomes more interesting. I take the strongest and weakest ship from my base race (hey, that rhymes!) and work out their counterparts. Doesn't matter what they're called, every race has a ship with the highest values and one with the weakest values. All of the ships are scaled between these, with a casual eye on my base race.

Then comes the fun part.

These two races go in game. I've taken to doing build buttons and such like as well, because it's easy to grab a render while I have Max open and it saves me a task at a later date but really you just need the SODs and ODFs. Using the map editor, I test the races against each other. Ship against ship in a tournament type thing, where every pairing is tried out. I record the result in excel again, and tweak where necessary. If I'm happy, I'll look over the resource costs and make sure there are no glaring errors or serious spikes.

I used to balance before I even put a ship in or made a model, but the result of that is a lot of boring numbers and a quick loss of interest. That's not good. Doing it this way means that it is a constantly evolving process - hopefully making it more reliable - and I can actually see my actions in game rather than in plain text.

Of course, there are things that go wrong or are missed. Look at FlOps. Their ODFs are calculated to three decimal places, make provisions for every ship and passive in the game, and have diverse tech trees and races - none of them comes without some serious calculation on the part of the team. Even so, there are things that the players notice. Especially online. When a mod is done, when it's released and people play it, they will notice things. That, in my opinion, is part of what a Beta is for - it's not so much to test the ships and stations as it is to check the balance and AI; both things that need every pair of eyes they can find.

I am unsure how much of that made sense (see my note at the top of the post) but I hope it helps. I'll be happy to clarify/go into further detail on anything once I'm fully rested .

 

[kjc733]

It is often said that this is the hardest part of making any mod. I tend to generate monster spreadsheets, sometimes using automated cell calculations to develop ratios to get the rough specs. Then I tend to tweak the individual ship to make it fit better.

So for example, I have in the past used published specs of ships and use mass as the basis for generating a ratio of hps and hullstrength/shield strength. I then bias the shields based on the technology level of the ship. SO whilst an Intrepid and an Excelsior may have similar tonnage the shields on the Intrepid will be higher.

Weapons will be based off of a similar concept. I determine how many photon torpedoes should kill a certain type of ship, and then bias torpedo powers to a technology level. Same with phasers. Weapons counts... are still not very good.

Basically, its not easy and will be done on playtest and feel, but you could use ratios to get in the right ballpark.

 

[Terra_Inc]

I tend to make a scale from scout-light to battleship-heavy and calculate the basic stuff (weapon and hull strength, costs, build time) off that, then I shift that scale for different races (Klingons get +20% weapon strength, -20% hull and shields etc.) and just put ships into that scale how I think they should be in relation to each other. It helps if the ships are a totally ordered set (i.e. for every pair of ships, you know which one is more powerful). When I have that table set up, I go in and refine. I experiment and see if my balance model behaves as I expected. I find this method really helpful. You have to be careful with the size of the steps on the scale - if you want a flat balance, where a few scouts can take out mighty battleships, choose small steps. If you want to balance closer to stock, choose larger steps. If you'd like, I can show you how I used that method to set up the Wastelands balance.

If you haven't already, check out my old Modder's Toolbox. It was written with vanilla A2 modding in mind, but can be helpful for FO projects as well. (It really cuts down on the number of A2 test runs because some of the tools allow you to emulate the game's behavior. You can even do mock battles between your ships without having to fire up ye olde A2!)

 

[Dominus_Noctis]

Hm, starting from scratch is indeed a very difficult task. Fleet Ops has been designed over a decade, and its balance has shifted considerably over that time period: formulae have been improved and new ones added based on need and new features.

For some very basic examples, we have calculations in FOscript (our in-house scripting program) that deal with scaling cost to tech level, fire arc, speed, range, hitpoints, regeneration rates, etc -> these also scale with other units and other factions dynamically to result in a rather complex, but pretty successful metasystem.

Although we use formulae to do rough balance for everything, the units, specials, etc were originally designed in the void: only once put in the game can a value be assigned them, and only via lots of multiplayer testing can balance holes be worked out. That's why Fleet Ops balance constantly evolves - there are a lot of complexities with making a multiplayer game, and if you want people to both enjoy a dynamic game, and a well balanced one, there has to be a lot of real testing (and then implementation of automatic formulae to account for those real testing things). For instance, weapon range can be used to kite. Thus, weapon range increases the costs of a vessel, as does speed.

At the most basic level, if you wish to balance something, I would first sit down and figure out what you want the feel of your faction to be. Once you have a rough idea of the specials, bonuses, and units that are available, ask yourself how these compare to another factions. Look for inspiration from other games and see how similar concepts have worked out.

Also, be sure to ask people and organize testers to find holes in your scheme. Without a well developed idea - as well as the willpower to put it into a form that can be played with - balancing cannot be accomplished. This is something that I have discussed at length with TUN some months ago: moving his modification toward balance requires alterations to the original concepts, additions of new specials, and lots of editing work. The first two can be done easily enough with any game as long as there is an open mind. The last item however is much more difficult, because Armada II and Fleet Operations are not friendly for large scale modding. At least in the world of Sigma and Fleet Ops, if you expect to fine tune balance in a game with 2-10k files, you can usually expect to do a few thousand edits a week - or more. As stated previously, Fleet Ops has automated tools for this, and at the moment TUN is waiting for FOscript to be finalized for release to work out the particulars of balance.

With that said, I'm sure there are many people here and elsewhere who would be willing to help you on balance. I'm certainly happy to lend a hand and discuss stuff .

 

[thunderfoot]

I establish one unit, which normally is one everyone is very familiar with, as my baseline. Everything else is adjusted off this baseline for the first draft. Obviously, something will come out weaker or stronger and will need further adjustment. This is the method used by the devs of the PnP wargames I collected and played in my younger years. Surprising just how correct everything comes out the first time as well as how quickly everything sets up.

As for balance, I am not as concerned with "hard" numbers as much as I am with effect. If it makes sense to me to set up I.K.S. Rotarran so she can destroy a Jem' Hadar Dreadnought with one salvo, then I am going to do so. We sometimes forget Star Trek, and all the things it has given us over the last 46 years, began life as stories, not games. Fairly safe guess Gene never imagined something like Fleet Ops or STO could come about. Also a fairly safe guess the writers and producers weren't paying attention at all to how powerful Enterprise's phasers were or how fast her engines could drive her when they wrote Balance of Terror. IMO, we should pay less attention to numbers and more attention to stories.

I fully realize this is blasphemy and radical heresy of the very worst sort and there are Simon-pure, Canon-worshippping FanBoys who after reading this, will plot my untimely demise using Jedi mind tricks to turn me to the Dark Side.

Short version: Trust your gut, K_merse. You are an accomplished modder with enough skill, talent, and experience you know what you want to do. Worry not if it ain't perfect the first time. You'll get it close enough to, ahem, "Right", to satisfy all your fans and admirers. Among which I proudly and vociferously count myself.