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Hard Drives and Windows

Rifraf

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I had been talking about backing up and reformatting in an unrelated thread I started and wanted to break this off separately to keep the other post on point. I currently have a 500gb 7200 rpm drive in my computer now that is the only drive.

Comments from that other post have got me thinking about getting another internal drive to use solely for my games and some storage leaving basically Windows only and perhaps a few other things on the main drive. I guess 500gb is pretty large and really a waste to have not much on it and use it as my main drive.

Would it be worth it to get another drive for gaming purposes to any of you? I've also toyed with going from Vista x65 to Win7 x64, but not sure that would really be worth it and wanted to get some opinions
 

CABAL

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7 is much better than Vista with revised UAC and better compatibility for XP programs. I do have a partition that is almost exclusively for games, but that's mostly a way to make the most of my drive while keeping the guts of my two operating systems separated. I did use a different hard drive completely at one point, but I haven't noticed much of a performance difference between that and running it off of the same drive.
 

Majestic

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I use a 2TB drive for everything that isn't required to be re-installed with a format of my C drive (like MMO games, all my models, reference images, text documents you name it), my main is a 500GB drive and I wouldn't call that a waste, however I have found it's getting harder trying to get HD's that are under 500GB these days. You can always use some of that 500GB for such things as games that need to be re-installed if you reformat your main drive and re-install Windows (like Age of Empires etc) or even have a nice sizable windows SWAP file to help with performance. I do both.
 

Rifraf

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Thanks for the info. When I built my box about 5 years ago I went with an OEM Vista x64 and have never had issues. I've never reformatted though and never upgraded anything except RAM and the vid card. OEM is all I'm finding for Win 7. Do you all use retail or OEM?
 

CABAL

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OEM only gets you one install, but it's cheaper. I'd get retail if you can find it, but they don't make retail Win7 disks anymore so that will probably be difficult. They won't make OEM Win7 disks after this year, either.

I personally never reformat and reinstall if I don't have to. I just use a good third party defragger since the Windows one is pretty bad. If you go that way though, it is very important to defrag with a quality program every time you install something or download a large file since NTFS is extremely prone to fragmentation. I installed a game the other day and it was evenly spread across all the empty space on my drive rather than being tightly bundled. Simply defragging improved performance on that four fold.

NTFS is probably the biggest problem with XP, Vista, and 7. 8 has more pressing issues. Linux's ext4 file system and Apple's HFS+ file system are significantly more advanced, such that finding defraggers for them is very difficult due to them not really being necessary. They also just have better performance on the whole. Unfortunately, they can't really be used with Windows and ext4 has no way to disable case sensitivity which can mess up Windows programs, as the Wine developers learned early on.
 

Majestic

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I am not a fan of Vista but I must say I never had an issue with Vista Ultimate x64, I used it for a couple of years and it supported all the programs I used including stock Armada 2. In fact I would say that I've probably had more issues with Win7 and XP than I ever did with Vista I just prefer the layout and feel of 7 and XP as I always had trouble with finding things and such with Vista.

Now if they could have the reliability of Vista ultimate with the layout and look of 7 I would be most happy. :)

Thanks for the info Cabal, any recommendations on 3rd party defraggers as I use the windows one and never knew it was bad, though to be honest I should have known considering a lot of windows and the programs that come with it are rather rough around the edges.
 

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I use one by AVG. It comes in the AVG PC Tuneup software package. It's not free, but there is a 15 day free trial. The 'defrag and optimize' setting in the defragger is fantastic. It will defrag files and move them to the beginning of the volume, with a proportionate amount of space in between in case the file grows later. It also keeps files in the same directory together so that programs are contiguous. These features can improve performance on video games quite a bit.

When I found it, my HDD was horribly fragmented and the Windows defragger couldn't get it below about 60% fragmentation. I ran the AVG one twice and got it to 0%.

It looks like Defraggler and Auslogics Disk Defrag are pretty popular and are free. Looking at a screenshot and features list, Auslogics looks like it may actually be a free variant on the defragger in the AVG package. You might go with that one first.
 

Majestic

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Thanks Cabal I will give Auslogics Disk Defrag a shot. :D It would be nice to get the PC improved in it's performance. Zelph's suggestion the other day in the other thread did help but I am still having problems and my guess is it's the hard-drive, whether it be that the drive is dying or that it's fragmented I am not sure yet. Hopefully the latter.
 

Rifraf

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This is really good info. Thanks to both of you. I really liked XP and Vista wasn't a huge change for me at least. I read about all the bloat and inefficiencies of Vista, but haven't had a lick of problem with it.

We switched to 7 at work last month and it's really growing on me so I've been contemplating switching to it. OEM is the only option though and even though I use OEM now I'm not sure it'd be worth it?

I have no interest in 8 at all. Even though I have a Windows phone and love the tiles I don't want that on my comp. I know I can circumvent that, but the reviews I've seen just don't scream get 8. :)
I never looked into the Window defragger, but no matter how many times I ran it it just didn't seem to do much. I just accepted that my drive was never that fragmented. Maybe complacency? :lol2:

I will check on the programs you mentioned Cabal. This is one thing people in these types of forums don't talk about much. Maybe once a week I'll start a new thread to discuss what anti-virus other use/recommend or SSD vs HD or video cards. At least gets everyone active here. Or a handful of us anyway.
 

CABAL

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This is really good info. Thanks to both of you. I really liked XP and Vista wasn't a huge change for me at least. I read about all the bloat and inefficiencies of Vista, but haven't had a lick of problem with it.
The service packs really did wonders for Vista, but by the time they came out the name had already been ruined so they released 7 which is basically just Vista with another service pack and a new taskbar.

We switched to 7 at work last month and it's really growing on me so I've been contemplating switching to it. OEM is the only option though and even though I use OEM now I'm not sure it'd be worth it?
The only difference between an OEM copy and a retail copy is the number of installs you're allowed before you have to get another. Based on that I'd say that if you don't regularly reinstall the OS it's the better deal.

I have no interest in 8 at all. Even though I have a Windows phone and love the tiles I don't want that on my comp. I know I can circumvent that, but the reviews I've seen just don't scream get 8. :)
8's UI has some serious problems. The 8.1 update helped, but it wasn't enough. If you're really brave, you may try waiting until next year. It sounds like Windows 9 (or possibly though unlikely 8.2) will be released in April 2015. It sounds like it will be to 8 what 7 was to Vista. If you don't have a touchscreen it will automatically boot you into the desktop rather than the tiles, the start menu is coming back, and they're ditching the 'feature' of having two versions of many programs, one for tiles and one for desktop, in favor of simply running the tile version in a window when in desktop mode. It should also inherit 8's improved performance, which is just about the only reason to get it right now.

I never looked into the Window defragger, but no matter how many times I ran it it just didn't seem to do much. I just accepted that my drive was never that fragmented. Maybe complacency? :lol2:
That's because it doesn't do much. Not in XP, anyway. It will defrag the files, but won't move complete ones so they get plopped at random spots on the volume and it often leaves you with as much as 20% fragmentation, even on good days.

Technically speaking, NTFS is designed to reduce the performance impact of fragmentation, but that's a stupid idea when you can greatly reduce the risk of fragmentation in the first place. Some programs are also more affected by fragmentation than others. With Morrowind or C&C Tiberian Sun I mostly just notice an increase in load times when the program is fragmented, while Civilization 4 and Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines slow to a crawl. Should work fine on SSDs, though. Fragmentation has no effect on a solid state drive and defragging it will actually reduce the drive's life expectancy.

I will check on the programs you mentioned Cabal. This is one thing people in these types of forums don't talk about much. Maybe once a week I'll start a new thread to discuss what anti-virus other use/recommend or SSD vs HD or video cards. At least gets everyone active here. Or a handful of us anyway.
If that Auslogics one is as good as the AVG defragger, I'm getting rid of the AVG suite and keeping that one. I've barely used anything from it other than the defragger anyway.

Periodic tech threads would be nice. I'd like to learn more about the differences between AMD and Intel CPUs, for instance. I don't think I've even seen an AMD system so I don't exactly have much experience with them.
 

Majestic

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Well I ran the Auslogic's defragger yesterday evening/last night. Bear in mind that I did the Windows one the day before. After calculating both drives they were roughly around 20% fragmented each and it took about 5 hours to defrag both drives, bear in mind that is a total of 1.752TB of used space over both drives. I just analysed both my disks this morning and it's down to 0% fragmented, so I think it was a pretty good result. I am also going to try their free speedboost program to see if I can improve my system performance that way as well.
 

Rifraf

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I also downloaded Auslogic today and will give it a try. Thanks again Cabal
 
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