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Enterprise Era Klingon Ship Pack Textures

Archonon

Master Chief Petty Officer of Starfleet
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Hi guys, in seeking out all things Klingon from the ENT era or the new Kelvin timeline, I've found that there's little out there to represent these periods.

Merough made this pretty awesome ship pack for A2 a while back but he was unable to get them textured due to inexperience and lack of proper programs (As he explained in the comments section). It has 5 ships, including a proposed but never used D-7 predecessor that looks pretty good.

The models are completed, they have odfs, sods, etc. They are only missing textures. Anyone feel like making some textures for this pack?

You can see the pack here: http://armadafiles.com/files/armada...lingon-ent-ship-pack-beta-no-textures/details

I can create build buttons and an Admiral's Log pic for them
 

Jetfreak

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I distinctly recall the ENT-era getting the short end of the stick in those days. And the ones available are for Bridge Commander and are too high poly for A2 use.

A damn shame really, because doing TOS stuff is apparently more "popular" if you want ships that look like plastic toys (no offense).

I'll dig through my files if I have something of relevance. I think I had a low-res ENT BoP convert but I'm not sure...
 

Archonon

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LOL! You are totally right. With the exception perhaps of the Connie and the D-7, many of the TOS ships tend to belong in Mystery Science Theater 3000.

I have managed to mix a healthy collection of ENT era ships (At least for United Earth). Other races are usually much shorter. In any case, thanks for looking. I think I can put that Klingon pack into A2 and they almost pass for completed from far away since the sods are green, almost. lol. Anyhow, no worries, you've helped me more than enough. Thank you.
 

Rifraf

I know just enough to be a danger to myself
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If it's any consolation I asked Merough quite a while ago on behalf of anyone willing to do the textures if they could re-release his pack once textured and he granted permission. I can provide the email if needed.

I loved his designs, but alas not very fun without those textures.
 

Archonon

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Agreed Rifraf. Like Jet said, it's a shame that there wasn't more love given to ENT era designs. But it's alright. I brought attention to the pack here cause this is just about the last bastion I've found that is active, or active-ish lol, with A2. I figured there may be a modeler that might be interested in taking on texturing them, who hadn't seen the pack.

There's still a couple of ENT Klingon ships out there to enjoy.
 

kjc733

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Archonon, I have the pack and I agree that it's a shame they weren't textured properly - they still don't look bad though (unless you zoom right in).
The problem with someone finishing the job is where has his lack of knowledge stopped him. If the models aren't uv mapped (I haven't looked to remind myself what is in the pack) then there's not a lot that can be done (unless he releases the mesh and someone else maps them). If they are mapped then it still doesn't help much unless we have that map - the textures have no detail to show where the mesh is.
In short, we would need either:
- a uv map for the released sod
- the original mesh to map ourselves
 

Archonon

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I gotcha kjc, I have very little (See none) knowledge about modeling. That sounds very complicated and a huge amount of trouble to invest in. Let's just rack these up to what might have been then. Thanks for the explanation.

If I use them I'll keep the camera away...like far away (Armada equivalent of putting bag over head). Lol.
 

kjc733

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Just for information, the steps in making a model go something like this:

1. Decide what it is you want to build. Either someone elses design or your own design. Each has its own difficulties.
2. Plan how you are going to build it, how you break the design into easy to build components and the order in which to build them. And how complex is the mesh going to be (i.e. what polygon budget are you working to). For A2 you are probably aiming at the 3k poly sort of level (although you can get away with higher if its a unique or rare ship or you just want to do beauty shots). For high quality art like the stuff made by Jetfreak or ISS E you want higher polygon models so that the rough edges are lessened and you get better depth perspective on detail because it is physically there. Think of it in terms of how many sides make a circle, a 48 sided circle will look more circular close up than a 24 sided circle, however at a distance a 24 sided circle will probably be alright to use.
3. Now the fun bit (for me anyway), try to make a mesh that looks like the design. Sometimes you succeed, sometimes not, the trick is knowing when to declare victory and move on. If it's someone elses design that becomes a little harder because you know what the end result is supposed to look like. Conversely, when I built the Righteous it ended up looking very little like my original sketch.
4. UV map the mesh (the tedious bit). This is essentially "unwrapping" the mesh onto a 2D surface. We do this because textures are 2D and need to cover a 3D shape (think of how you would make a cube out of a sheet of paper).
5. Make the textures. These will be arranged as per the uv map (think of it as a colouring book - the bits of texture you will see on the mesh need to stay inside the lines). See attached as an example. I haven't included any detail here because this is probably more complex than making the model itself - it certainly takes me far longer to make textures than make a mesh!
6. Make the alpha map. In A2 this is embedded in the tga and we use this to highlight glows (jpegs don't have the ability). Some software use alphas within a file to do transparency. For my Maya renders I use separate files to map the glowy bits (oddly enough named light maps, glow maps, incandescent maps or something along those lines). We can also have bump maps which give the illusion of depth - but A2 doesn't use these.
7. Material selection - we need to use the right material to give the design its looks (lambert or phong usually - it generally describes how the material reflects light, as if its matte plastic, shiny metal, etc) and assign the texture to the material and the material to the design. For A2 we also name the material to ensure characteristics like alphas are used.
8. Hard point mapping. This is how we define things like where phasers fire from or where the ship can be hit. It's what the game understands as "physical" parts of the model. There is an excellent tutorial my Major Payne which describes this for A2 (and I still refer to it each time I make an A2 mesh).
9. All the misc A2 stuff - odf writing, tech tree, sprites, Admirals log, build lists, etc. I won't go into detail as I'll be here forever.
10. Renders and compositing an image. This is the magic that Jetfreak and ISS-E do so well, making the pretty picture around a ship. You need to light the ship and match it to the background, some of this can be done in the 3D software package (e.g. Maya or 3DS MAx) and some will be done afterwards in "post" using Photoshop or Aftereffects. For example, in my attached Entil'Zha image, the fleeing Whitestar has an illuminated underside from the explosion. The illumination was done in Maya, but was then emphasized in Photoshop. The explosion and laser were also added in Photoshop afterwards.

Anyway, apologies for the thread hijack (*slaps wrist* bad kjc) but I thought I'd try to improve your understanding of what goes into making models.
 

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Rifraf

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No apology needed kjc. I appreciate the information. I've seen a lot of tuts like this and always useful to show just how hard it is to get a finished product. Of course when I said above if someone could just texture them I didn't take any of this into account. :oops: I know it's way harder than it's always portrayed or given people credit for. :)

Merough stated there were things that needed cleaned up with the models themselves as well, but he just never got back to that part.

Forgive my ignorance, but when you say you need the mesh do you mean the ms3d file then someone can map the textures to that?
 

kjc733

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By mesh I mean an editable version of the model, be it ms3d, .obj, .mb or whatever format they were made in.
If the uv's haven't been unwrapped then a modeling program will be needed to do so and then resave the file with the modifications.
If the uv's have already been unwrapped, then it may be possible to determine the map by other means (or it may not, I don't know).
Doing it from the sod is impossible unless the sod can be imported into a modelling program and edited.

EDIT - I just had a look at the textures, they are tiled at128x128 pixels... so I suspect the uv's haven't been unwrapped.
 

Archonon

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Hi kjc, thanks for the very impressive tutorial that explains all the effort you guys make to get one single model ingame. For me this would be an almost indecypherable process, I might as well be looking at the naked human brain with duct tape and a spork and told "Operate!"

I understand some terms, big polys bad but pretty, low polys good but...more humble. And that's it for me. So I have nothing but respect for you fellas that pour so much time and skill into making one, lest imagine entire mods/TCs.

I like your screenshot of the White Stars and the Battlecrabs. I've often wondered how the ships in beauty shots get to look so damn cinematic as opposed to ingame where it just looks like a giant traffic jam.

Sucks about the Klingon pack, had I any idea that it would take so much trouble to finish them I wouldn't have even suggested it. So right there on that same boat as you Rifraf. Lol.

Thanks
 

Majestic

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When I get a PC again (probably be close to 12 months from now due to funds) I'll look into releasing my United Earth ships and stations from my Coalition War mod for use here on MSFC.
 

Archonon

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Hi Majestic, that sounds really interesting!

I saw the mod's old thread and you have a terrific collection of ships. I've never been a huge fan of the Daedalus' design but I think you made the best looking Daedalus I've seen for any Armada game. Your Yorktown (or is it Ares? The big battleship) is also very impressive!

There is an older mod I found called Romulan Wars that had some of those designs, such as the Moskva. I'm happy to see your versions of those designs. Also wow on that shipyard you made.
:y
 

Jetfreak

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In the interest of completion, I came across these three morsels while digging for those darn TOS Constitutions...

They're @Majestic 's models I believe, which saw a limited release way back in 2010. With Maj's blessing, I can easily upload and pack them up for game use. :)
 

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Archonon

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Hi Jetfreak, it's been a while since I've visited. I've nearly got my giant mammoth 3 alternate timeline sized Federation race ingame but I got an email of your update here. Sorry it took a while to respond.

Dang! Those three ships look awesome. After I'm done with the UFP/TE I'm going to work on ol' ridge heads (Klingons) so if you do release those ships, I'll definitely scoop them up for the Empire's Enterprise Era fleet which right now consists of ONE single ship lol.

Thanks for still keeping this old request in mind, you really go way above and beyond dude! :thumbsup:
 

Mangledduk

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In the interest of completion, I came across these three morsels while digging for those darn TOS Constitutions...

They're @Majestic 's models I believe, which saw a limited release way back in 2010. With Maj's blessing, I can easily upload and pack them up for game use. :)

Aad, that'd be amazing if you could release those. I remember seeing those models ages ago and thinking it was a shame they didn't have textures.
 
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