Do You Think MSFC Should Host Exclusive Content?

[Majestic]

This was brought up recently and I want to know what you think. Should we host exclusive content to help boost the community here and the continue survival of all we have built together or not?

 

[Terra_Inc]

A loud and clear YES!

To me, MSFC has always been about appreciating and respecting community members as artists and their work as works of art. It's one of the reason why this place is unique. If someone decides to make MSFC-exclusive content, it means that he thinks his work will not be respected in other places.
Modders, for example, feel that some people see their mods not as works of art (which most of them are), but merely something that is produced, something they can even demand from modders. If you've been to A2F often, you'll have seen some people's impossible behavior, asking for fullraces and even TCs like they are something we pump out when we're bored. It just feels disrespectful when you know how long such things take and how much work and love goes into them. Also, mod theft. It's an old topic and I'm sure we've already discussed this enough. However, at A2F we've still had mod theft incidents in 2011 - people unwilling to provide a list of credits. If you'd want to avoid that kind of trouble, I guess you'd keep it MSFC exclusive.
I've experienced that the people here have their code of honor - we can be much more liberal with permissions and things because we know that the other people in these parts will treat us and our work respectfully.
If I was not a MSFCian, this is what it would look like to me: Here's a group of people that are amazing artists (just look at Jet's dA page, for example, or Dan's, or TUN's). They seem to be on pretty good terms with each other. They have a lot of stuff they keep to themselves. Man, I'd totally join.

 

[Dan1025]

Definitely, MSFC provides a secure place for people to release their work to some/most of the more active people in the community, without fear of it being used/ripped off/stolen. It also encourages new membership if people see there is high quality content here that's not available elsewhere.

While different modders have different opinions on where they release their mods (their mods their choice), MSFC is a great place to release exclusive content without fear of anyone misusing it

 

[Adm_Z]

I of course believe we should have exclusive content here. I just think it should be easier to get to the nonexclusive stuff.

 

[CABAL]

I feel that exclusive content is a must for a modding site, both to attract new members and to allow existing members to limit who can access their work, whatever their reasons may be.

 

[kjc733]

That seems a rather unusual question to me, I'm not entirely sure what the question really is, as I'm fairly confident the admins don't go posting peoples work anywhere but here!

People should have the right to say where their work is hosted. If people only want their work hosted here at MSFC then it will be exclusive regardless of whether it's site policy or some such. Conversely, if people want their work posted everywhere then that should be their decision and we shouldn't bar the work from here because they do choose to post elsewhere.

So, should MSFC host exclusive content - I vote yes.
Should MSFC make it policy to make it exclusive content only (which I know isn't the question) - I'd say no.

My apologies if anyone feels insulted by this post, that was not my intent - I spent a while looking at it and it still doesn't look right.

 

[Atlantisbase]

I also think the question needs clarification, or a more narrow scope.

The main problem I have with "exclusive content" is accessibility; how accessible is the content? Related to that is the question, who are you hosting it for? Are you hosting it for just the long standing MSFC community, or are you hosting it for the (presumably) A2 community and inviting them to come and get it here? While both encourage the growth of the community, both still come back to the fact that if no one can download said content save a select few, then what's the point, no one will bother (or even be aware of its existance) and you will have failed in your mission to boost the community. In fact I think that would go so far as to seal this place's appearance as elitist - which, if I may be frank, you've done a pretty good job of already.

Ultimately it's the modder's choice where to release his mod; I mean if he wants to set up his own web server and host it himself, that's his perogative (it's kinda stupid, but still his perogative). Personally, I think exclusivity reduces awareness and exposure. You could make the best mod ever seen, but if it's only hosted on one site where one has to be a member for years before they can download it, well not may people will know about your mod.

In short, you need to decide what you mean by "exclusive content". You could call a lot of what's over on A2F "exclusive content": you can only find mod X on that site, but it's still accessible. There is a big difference between content which you can only get from one place and content which only a select few can get.

I understand why you restrict access to mods, but if it's too restricted, what's the point of putting a mod out there. Publishing a mod (for lack of a better word) is just like publishing anything else, you're putting it out for all to see and use. If you publish a book, will you be terrified someone will try to claim the work as their own? (Granted the a book is a little different than a mod, but the point is still valid.) If you're so afraid that someone will rip off a mod, don't make it; that sounds crass, but it's true.

So, am I against hosting exclusive content, no, but I am against making content inaccessible to the average user. How do I vote, I think it depends on the definition of "exclusive content", if you mean things which can only be found on MSFC, then yes, but if you mean things which only the select few can get, then no.

I hope no one is offended by my remarks, they are just my 2 cents.

 

[Avon]

In fact I think that would go so far as to seal this place's appearance as elitist - which, if I may be frank, you've done a pretty good job of already.

It would be nice if you were to explain what you mean by this comment

 

[Starfox1701]

The issue here is "Is the securty in place to protect moders helping or hurting the community at large?" Take a walk through the DL section and count DLs and you wil have your answer.

 

[Atlantisbase]

It would be nice if you were to explain what you mean by this comment

I mean that as a relatively new member, the overall tone of this place is elitist and exclusive, especially to an outside viewer. The most visible sign of it is the whole reputation system. Rep can be a good idea if it has fairly high liquidity; but when it doesn't, it just comes across as a way to give preference to a few. I'm sure I could think of more, but I would rather not derail this thread.

 

[Majestic]

What is meat by exclusive content is should MSFC bother to host files anymore or shouldn't it continue?

I understand why you restrict access to mods, but if it's too restricted, what's the point of putting a mod out there. Publishing a mod (for lack of a better word) is just like publishing anything else, you're putting it out for all to see and use. If you publish a book, will you be terrified someone will try to claim the work as their own? (Granted the a book is a little different than a mod, but the point is still valid.) If you're so afraid that someone will rip off a mod, don't make it; that sounds crass, but it's true.

The download limit is:

To be eligible to download files, the user must be a participating member of the community and is required to post an introduction thread in the introduction section of the forums and post at least 15 posts of decent size (mass amounts of single or 3 worded posts within a very small time frame will be deleted as this is noted to rapidly increase your post count just to gain access to downloads and is also considered to be spam), be active for 7 days and have made some contribution to the MSFC community (ie Forum posts) and have a reputation count of 30 which can only be gained by other members giving you positive reputation for great posts. No excuses will be accepted for not knowing, because if you are unaware, then you have breached the site rules by not reading and abiding by them and will be subject to the warning procedure outlined at the bottom of this page.

Our download policy is in place to protect the artist's/modders. Have you ever had something stolen from you and then re-released without even asking or the decently of your name being placed in their readme to credit you as the original model, texture or whatever creator? I've had this and others have as well. If people didn't like this polcy they wouldn't post it here would they. As for my files, that's my right. I do add people to the list who can gain access to it, but they have to be participating members who I am afforded and lucky enough to get to know well. But can't being bother to post here is their problem not mine to be blunt. Same with the posting limit. If they can't be bothered fulfilling the requirements then obviously they aren't that worried about getting that download. 15 posts isn't much, the 30 rep can be gained from just one user. That 30 rep thing is in place as us Admins feel it's the community choice as to who should be able to access the downloads not the admins as it's their work in the download section.

This is in place to protect people, we aren't a charity like A2F. Not meant to be insulting but look at AFC and A2F these days? They aren't all that active. While Break Media is part of the problem for the latter the former had many issues, including driving away it's main membership base in 2005 which in tern became known as MSFC. Both of these long standing sites are very in-active with few posting mods or posting in the forums these days.

At the end of the day it comes down to security, there are some very lets say non-moral and unkind people out there, out there be monsters as DeviantART says. I don't think we ask too much, considering the limit was a lot more 12 months ago and has been laxed a lot when I decided to password protect my own files so new members are no longer having to meet my own personal requirements.

I'd like to thank your for your views, it's appreciated and the kind of thing I was looking for. I know not everyone agrees with me, so I always go by the majority vote.

I would never make the downloads free, as I feel that's like stealing from the community. I have always felt that if you want to use what the community offers you should get off your butt and participate in the community, become part of it. It's not like we bite.

However getting back on coarse and looking at the poll it seems the majority, well more than the majority of the community likes the way we are doing things so far. Now if the results were reversed I would of course ask for suggestions about changes.

Note: This poll was made in response to a PM I got from a member here on the FO Forums, quite a disrespectful and insulting one that sated we are xenophobic. Even though he spoke to me like a was a piece of garbage under his boot. I decided to give his views some serious though as here we are with this poll.

 

[Avon]

Just to add my opinion, the only thing that neads re-addressing is the rep count of 30. I think it's too high, and and would put most people off from bothering. ....
I've been here around 5 years and bearly have 30.

Other than that, seems fine the way it is for me

 

[Majestic]

Just to add my opinion, the only thing that neads re-addressing is the rep count of 30. I think it's too high, and and would put most people off from bothering. ....
I've been here around 5 years and bearly have 30.

Other than that, seems fine the way it is for me

What would you suggest as an alternative?

 

[Atlantisbase]

Just to add my opinion, the only thing that neads re-addressing is the rep count of 30. I think it's too high, and and would put most people off from bothering. ....
I've been here around 5 years and bearly have 30.

Other than that, seems fine the way it is for me

Agreed. I'd recommend 10-15, no higher than 20.

 

[Adm_Z]

To be honest, I think the authors should have the choice for the level of protection they wanted in their files. Either public, private or Exclusive. Public, only requiring people to post an intro, private requiring the 15 posts and week or two of active membership, and exclusive being how you have your files. I think that would work the best but I don't know how complicated that would be to work out on the site.

 

[Majestic]

Agreed. I'd recommend 10-15, no higher than 20.

I'll see what the others who have their files hosted here say. If several of them want it lowered and the others don't mind I'll lower it.

To be honest, I think the authors should have the choice for the level of protection they wanted in their files. Either public, private or Exclusive. Public, only requiring people to post an intro, private requiring the 15 posts and week or two of active membership, and exclusive being how you have your files. I think that would work the best but I don't know how complicated that would be to work out on the site.

Unfortunately the download system doesn't work as advertised hence why I have the passworded protected files. Otherwise what you suggested would already be in effect.

 

[Hellkite]

Nothing unearned truly has value.. it is by the acts done earning it that true value is gain and worth can be measured. Even a gift has it's cost and earned in full by the ebb and flow of friendship,community, brotherhood, good will and above all respect of the giver " in this case the author/authors of the works" .

In a perfect world none of this would be needed... Alas we live in a world were the old staples of honor ,forthrightness ,integrity and accountability ; are vanishing becoming commodity once freely shared are far and between....

For give me this rant for it is how I feel and is just the feeling of a old man.

 

[Adm_Z]

I'll see what the others who have their files hosted here say. If several of them want it lowered and the others don't mind I'll lower it.



Unfortunately the download system doesn't work as advertised hence why I have the passworded protected files. Otherwise what you suggested would already be in effect.

In that case I would also like to have the limit lowered. Many people who want to download do not contribute back to the community, they just want to have fun with what's there, therefore it is hard for them to get legitimate rep.

 

[kjc733]

What is meat by exclusive content is should MSFC bother to host files anymore or shouldn't it continue?

Answer: H**l yes! Keep hosting!

I would never make the downloads free, as I feel that's like stealing from the community. I have always felt that if you want to use what the community offers you should get off your butt and participate in the community, become part of it. It's not like we bite.

However getting back on coarse and looking at the poll it seems the majority, well more than the majority of the community likes the way we are doing things so far. Now if the results were reversed I would of course ask for suggestions about changes.

I'll be the first to admit to being a lurker on forums, this rule has forced me to be an active participant here, and I think thats for the better (although I still tend to avoid threads that don't require constructive input).

Note: This poll was made in response to a PM I got from a member here on the FO Forums, quite a disrespectful and insulting one that sated we are xenophobic. Even though he spoke to me like a was a piece of garbage under his boot. I decided to give his views some serious though as here we are with this poll.

I think the fact that you have bothered to consider it, and even open it up to public debate, goes some ways to disputing the views of elitism etc. Either that or everyone here is all part of the grand dictatorship.

Just to add my opinion, the only thing that neads re-addressing is the rep count of 30. I think it's too high, and and would put most people off from bothering. ....
I've been here around 5 years and bearly have 30.

Other than that, seems fine the way it is for me

I can't say I disagree, and I'm surprised in your case Avon. But I do think the rep system is under-utilised sometimes and thus it could make it harder for newcomers to get at the content which actually drew them here in the first place. That isn't necessarily there fault, it's ours not not pushing the button enough! In fact, I'm not sure I've ever pushed the button (maybe I should).

Nothing unearned truly has value.. it is by the acts done earning it that true value is gain and worth can be measured. Even a gift has it's cost and earned in full by the ebb and flow of friendship,community, brotherhood, good will and above all respect of the giver " in this case the author/authors of the works" .

In a perfect world none of this would be needed... Alas we live in a world were the old staples of honor ,forthrightness ,integrity and accountability ; are vanishing becoming commodity once freely shared are far and between....

For give me this rant for it is how I feel and is just the feeling of a old man

Quoted for truth. So maybe not just old men Hellkite

 

[Majestic]

In that case I would also like to have the limit lowered. Many people who want to download do not contribute back to the community, they just want to have fun with what's there, therefore it is hard for them to get legitimate rep.

I would be opened to lowering the rep count, as I feel the post limit and time limit is more than reasonable.

Many people who want to download do not contribute back to the community

That's the problem Adm_Z, if they can't be bothered to get involved in the forums, why should the community bother with making it easier for them to rip off the community. I know that it is the minority case. But really it's very selfish if you ask me if they want to take but not give back. We aren't asking for much, get involvement in the forums.

A community that doesn't grow can eventually die. Having put almost 7 years into this place and with many of you putting years of work into this community as well I think I can safety say that none of you would like to see this site and community dwindle to a point that it would no longer be worth keeping the site up?

I just look back on the founding members, how many do we have left? Off the top off my head I can recall CrazyFrog, Syf, myself, Hellkite, EAS_Intrepid, Borg_Queen and Darklight. People like Blindeye, Harrie and many others just faded off the planet and many of those former member were very active, Blindeye was in fact our first admin before Syf, he had over 1,000 posts, I think it was closer to 2,000. My point is i'd hate to see the site die. Even if we did lower it all to make it easier for newcomers, they'd just come register, make a post or two and then download. download and download. Then because they haven't posted, they would be pruned and then complain their account was deleted re-registered and we'd have to take the time to check out their account, go through the checks and then it would start all over again.

It takes a bit of time to check a account out and would just give Katala more work when our lives are starting to speed up as we are both going to TAFE this year and will be trying again for a baby and if we are successful the following year I'll be Mr Mum while Kat continues on so she can go to University and get a Nursing degree. So life is really going to speed up for us.

I'll be the first to admit to being a lurker on forums, this rule has forced me to be an active participant here, and I think thats for the better.

I do think it was good as you've become a valued member of this community, your modelling thread is one of the first I check out when I see a new post in it when I log-on. I also think you've grown both in modelling and texturing due to your involvement in the forums and getting input and suggestions from questions you've asked. It's one of the ideas behind the rep system, to get us to know those who just lurk.

I think the fact that you have bothered to consider it, and even open it up to public debate, goes some ways to disputing the views of elitism etc. Either that or everyone here is all part of the grand dictatorship.

I have always tried to run MSFC with the involvement of the community, obviously some decisions have to be made solely by an Admin, but even in the Admin circle when such decisions need to be made we try to do a majority vote when all three of us are around. It's one of the reasons we have three Admins, we'll always get an answer rather than a draw so to say. One of MSFC founding principles was a more involvement in the community as 99% of the founding members came from AFC where Cecilzero one of the admins there pretty much treated us like a smear under his boot and one day said to me, you don't like how we run AFC, then go and make your own site. Well we did and here we are today.

I can't say I disagree, and I'm surprised in your case Avon. But I do think the rep system is under-utilised sometimes and thus it could make it harder for newcomers to get at the content which actually drew them here in the first place. That isn't necessarily there fault, it's ours not not pushing the button enough! In fact, I'm not sure I've ever pushed the button (maybe I should).

I do try to encourage people with the Rep system, one of the reasons the rep part of the download requirements was included. Unfortunately people don't use it much and as such I've kind of given up trying to encourage members to use it, some do and some don't and I have left it at that. I do think Atlantisbase's suggestion of 10-15 is more that doable.

 

[Adm_Z]

That's the problem Adm_Z, if they can't be bothered to get involved in the forums, why should the community bother with making it easier for them to rip off the community. I know that it is the minority case. But really it's very selfish if you ask me if they want to take but not give back. We aren't asking for much, get involvement in the forums.

I understand giving back to the community in the from of posting, but not everyone does something rep worthy. Not everyone can. Not everyone is a creator, in fact, most people are only consumers. When I go to ff and see 300+ downloads on something that has only been out a week, I don't see it as 300 people who could potentially rip me off, or 300 people who did nothing to deserve the content I posted freely, but rather 300 people who can have fun with it without having to pay anything or contribute anything. 300 people who got it for free and who are free to do with it what they like and appreciate it, or not. Sure there may be the minority case that someone takes that work and puts it somewhere else and maybe even clams that it is theirs, but to me, that makes no difference. 300 people know I did it and got to enjoy it, and that is enough for me. I made it it freely, posted it freely and they are free to use it. Actually, if someone took my work which I released freely, posted it somewhere else and claimed it was theirs, etc, not only would I not know about it, but i couldn't stop it, and I really wouldn't care. Unless money was involved, its all free and its all for fun.

For me, this is all for fun, and it is all free. The more people who have access to what I do for fun, and have fun with it, the better. I know I don't create stuff like you do maj, but this is my perspective. It would not change if my own brother stole my work and said it was his. The only thing that would change this for me is if someone took it and sold it for money(and made money). If that happened I would stop giving it away for free and go get a job making and selling it.

@ hellkite on this same issue

While I agree completely with your statements, I must add that sometimes free is free from one's perspective. For someone downloading my work, I hope that they don't see that they have to pay a price to deserve my work, but rather that I payed the price of hard work to do the mod in the first place. If they can't see the hard work I did to finish my mods then I don't really care what they think. I payed the price so the downloaders don't have to.

A community that doesn't grow can eventually die. Having put almost 7 years into this place and with many of you putting years of work into this community as well I think I can safety say that none of you would like to see this site and community dwindle to a point that it would no longer be worth keeping the site up?

I don't see why this specific issue would cause this community to die. MSFC is stronger than most large community because of the strong leadership you and the other admins and moderators provide. We have no Trolls and we all get a long relatively well, and most of us aren't going anywhere any time soon. If people want to join such a community, they will seek it out, if not then we don't really want them here anyway. I just don't see why only those in the community can have access to our work rather than having people see what kind of work this tight community can produce, either individually or as a whole. I don't think we will grow by being a friendly tight knit community that keeps its work to itself as that will seem elitist especially to a small community of gamers. However, if we choose to share what we produce in the hopes to attract more talented members, I think we will grow extremely fast. Again, just my opinion.

I just look back on the founding members, how many do we have left? Off the top off my head I can recall CrazyFrog, Syf, myself, Hellkite, EAS_Intrepid, Borg_Queen and Darklight. People like Blindeye, Harrie and many others just faded off the planet and many of those former member were very active, Blindeye was in fact our first admin before Syf, he had over 1,000 posts, I think it was closer to 2,000. My point is i'd hate to see the site die. Even if we did lower it all to make it easier for newcomers, they'd just come register, make a post or two and then download. download and download. Then because they haven't posted, they would be pruned and then complain their account was deleted re-registered and we'd have to take the time to check out their account, go through the checks and then it would start all over again.

As I said, most people are just consumers. I started out that way modding. All I did was go around and install everything I could. What I found was that I was able to make somethings better and eventually make my own work. I then sought out the Fleet Ops forums and began to post my "Improvements" there. Others took to the idea and eventually a pretty good sized modding community was formed just around a single mod. Me, Tyler, TUN, RCIX and others started that. I feel fairly certain that that would have never happened had we been forced to be a part of the community before downloading. Now, MSFC is a much less foreboding community than Fleetops, but to a new modder who just wants to download, merely posting in a forum can seem like a daunting task, especially when they have nothing to say. If we get hundreds of people who simply register, cherry pick our downloads section and then never even say hi, I am ok with that as there is likely to be one out of the hundred that sticks around to ask a question, and then maybe starts to make their own work, and so on. This is however your site, so it is all up to you and what you want. We will always be open to those who seek this kind of community, but are we open to those who don't even know that they would like it here? To those who have no idea what we can offer because they have to become part of the community before they know what it is?

It takes a bit of time to check a account out and would just give Katala more work when our lives are starting to speed up as we are both going to TAFE this year and will be trying again for a baby and if we are successful the following year I'll be Mr Mum while Kat continues on so she can go to University and get a Nursing degree. So life is really going to speed up for us.

And I certainly hope you keep up your diligent work, however it is also possible that many of us can help with the tasks such as screening spammers(I am not volunteering, but there are those who might) As you say, "One does not build a community..." Also, one person does not have to maintain it either. This is after all a community, and if you need help you should just ask and I"m sure someone will jump to the occasion.


Again, I want to clarify that this is all just my opinion. I don't mean that i think you should remove restriction on your files, but I speak for my work only. This is also your site and your rules and whatever you decide will go undisputed as far as I am concerned.


I express the following opinion because we are a community and because you asked for our opinion. Please don't take offence if you choose to read it as it is not my intention.

Spoiler: Z. on stealing

I can always release my stuff elsewhere, but I would rather have it here(and free) because I like it here better than anywhere else. I want my work to be represented by this community. I don't require protection for my work, but I would rather have it also represent what MSFC can do. If someone wants to steal my stuff, I can not stop them. This is the internet after all. If someone wanted to steal a bike, a chain would not deter them, but it would deter someone who might just walk off with it. Infact, someone can not "Steal" what is given freely. If someone wanted to steal my mods, sure having them only on msfc would stop them, but that might also mean that nobody else ever gets them either. Why let the thief ruin it for the rest of them?

Locking something up only makes it more of a target. Which is more likely to be stolen? A regular backpack or one with a Lock on it? Music that is given freely or that which is considered illegal to reproduce? Putting something in a vault will surely protect items from casual temptation, but nothing can stop someone determined to steal something valuable enough to lock up. The fact that it is locked away only puts more value on it for a theif.

Again I ask, why let the thief ruin it for the rest of them. One can not steal what is given freely.

Sorry to rant, this is just something that I feel strongly about.

 

[Majestic]

Thank you for your response Adm_Z I value input, more so when it's something I haven't thought a lot on or more importantly that is the opposite to what I am thinking or feeling. One of my new year resolutions is to try and get back to being more open minded more the person I was in 2010, something 2011 changed in me (due to all the stress, personal problems and other real life issues) which made me someone I started to dislike personally.

I was not at all offended, I can understand being passionate and feel strongly about a subject, us Aussies are known for being passionate and we let everyone know about it. It can sometimes be mistaken as opinionated. So yes not offended at all. Thanks for the enlightening post.

Overall when reading your post I could relate and agree with many points. This doesn't mean I would just let unregistered people download, but I am open to limiting the download restrictions, reducing them and whatnot. I still feel strongly that one who wishes to download should still be part of the community, plus it also protects against some of those who wish us harm in one way or another. You're right that it won't stop everyone, Jetnova is the strongest example that comes to my mind. However it will stop the lazy thieves.

I have been looking for a while now for an alternative to our download package, something that can be more flexible to allow different levels of protection depending upon the artist's own wishes. However the only ones I've found cost money and many of us these days don't have much of that valuable resource. The best one I have found that seems to have the permissions I have been looking for is: vBadvanced Links Directory

Say what a little later I'll see about putting a poll up with some examples of download restrictions, the most voted ones will then be presented to the people who's files are hosted here and then the results from those will determined whether changes will or won't happen and what those changes will happen. Majority rules, and if anyone has increased concerns over this I'll discuss the possibility of setting something similar to what I have up for them.

However my files I see as a different ball game, I will be keeping them as they are, however upon looking at the download list my files only make up 12% (71 files out of 570 currently) and so is a very small part of the overall downloads we offer.

Again thank you for your input, I really value it, I can't express that enough!

 

[Atlantisbase]

Pointer to Adm_Z's post 21 here

Quoted via pointer for truth and space.

If that happened I would stop giving it away for free and go get a job making and selling it.

Super tru dat.

Regarding the death of a community, as an outsider viewer, I would call this community static, if not near death. I see only about 2 dozen active users, posting in about five subforums, on the same topics; I see less than five new topics a week. Frankly, there's not a lot keeping one here. The lack of activity also makes it difficult to post or gain rep as there's nowhere to post. I for one would rather not see MFSC die, but I don't know how you can bring in new blood if there's no draw.

I understand giving back to the community in the from of posting, but not everyone does something rep worthy. Not everyone can. Not everyone is a creator, in fact, most people are only consumers. When I go to ff and see 300+ downloads on something that has only been out a week, I don't see it as 300 people who could potentially rip me off, or 300 people who did nothing to deserve the content I posted freely, but rather 300 people who can have fun with it without having to pay anything or contribute anything. 300 people who got it for free and who are free to do with it what they like and appreciate it, or not. Sure there may be the minority case that someone takes that work and puts it somewhere else and maybe even clams that it is theirs, but to me, that makes no difference. 300 people know I did it and got to enjoy it, and that is enough for me. I made it it freely, posted it freely and they are free to use it. Actually, if someone took my work which I released freely, posted it somewhere else and claimed it was theirs, etc, not only would I not know about it, but i couldn't stop it, and I really wouldn't care. Unless money was involved, its all free and its all for fun.

...

I can always release my stuff elsewhere, but I would rather have it here(and free) because I like it here better than anywhere else. I want my work to be represented by this community. I don't require protection for my work, but I would rather have it also represent what MSFC can do. If someone wants to steal my stuff, I can not stop them. This is the internet after all. If someone wanted to steal a bike, a chain would not deter them, but it would deter someone who might just walk off with it. Infact, someone can not "Steal" what is given freely. If someone wanted to steal my mods, sure having them only on msfc would stop them, but that might also mean that nobody else ever gets them either. Why let the thief ruin it for the rest of them?

Locking something up only makes it more of a target. Which is more likely to be stolen? A regular backpack or one with a Lock on it? Music that is given freely or that which is considered illegal to reproduce? Putting something in a vault will surely protect items from casual temptation, but nothing can stop someone determined to steal something valuable enough to lock up. The fact that it is locked away only puts more value on it for a theif.

Again I ask, why let the thief ruin it for the rest of them. One can not steal what is given freely.

This comes right back to who does one mod for? Oneself or the community, and what's the point of modding for the community if no one gets to see it. The internet is a different paradigm, those who choose to put material into it should be ready to deal with the fact that that which goes into the ethier may not be as well respected as in the real world.

Sorry to rant, this is just something that I feel strongly about.

No worries man.

 

[Avon]

I do think Atlantisbase's suggestion of 10-15 is more that doable.

Yup sounds a bit more reasonable. Even going lower to 5-10 should be enough to get to know someone

 

[Adm_Z]

I have been looking for a while now for an alternative to our download package, something that can be more flexible to allow different levels of protection depending upon the artist's own wishes. However the only ones I've found cost money and many of us these days don't have much of that valuable resource. The best one I have found that seems to have the permissions I have been looking for is: vBadvanced Links Directory

When that says $39.99 does that mean its a one time cost or per month charge to use it? It certainly appears that it would work with our needs.

 

[Majestic]

Regarding the death of a community, as an outsider viewer, I would call this community static, if not near death. I see only about 2 dozen active users, posting in about five subforums, on the same topics; I see less than five new topics a week. Frankly, there's not a lot keeping one here. The lack of activity also makes it difficult to post or gain rep as there's nowhere to post. I for one would rather not see MFSC die, but I don't know how you can bring in new blood if there's no draw.

We rely on people to help promote this site, if people don't promote and invite people over here then we can't get new blood.

Yup sounds a bit more reasonable. Even going lower to 5-10 should be enough to get to know someone

10 sounds good to me.

When that says $39.99 does that mean its a one time cost or per month charge to use it? It certainly appears that it would work with our needs.

It's a one off I believe. If anything else it could be once a year but I am pretty certain it's a one off. Been looking into that and I see no monthly or yearly amount/fee.

 

[EAS_Intrepid]

I think that MSFC should definately host exlusive content. By that I mean content, that is only available here on MSFC and for people who participate in our forum. By using the REP points we have a system in place, that makes sure that frequent MSFC users get access to the downloads. And unless you behave like a complete idiot it is not impossible to get access to the download section within a reasonable amount of time.

Either you join a community a) for the community's sake or b) to "harvest" something the community did. We want people to come here for reason a). Access to the downloads and several high-quality mods and files is somewhat of a "bonus feature" like a behind-the-scene-documentary when you buy a DVD instead of downloading the movie from the internet.
I am sorry if we seem "elitist" to others not participating here - because we are not. And just because you cannot download stuff here right away it does not mean we look down upon others. Everyone is able to get an account and start posting, the only requirement is a "hello" in the introduction subsection. Our community is smaller indeed. But that is okay. The "worth" of a community is not measured in the amount of people participating or the download counts. Of course I am happy to see that one of my (very early) B5 ships is still in the Top5 downloads here, but I could not care less if that would not be the case.

MSFC is no longer a pure A2 modding site. It never really was, but early on we started debating and talking about far more stuff than just Armada 1&2.

I do agree with Atlantisbase to have the count lowered.

One more word about the reputation system:
Indeed we should use it more often, but you should not be afraid about getting negative feedback if someone did not agree with what you wrote. Don't be offended easily. People should nevertheless hesitate to give bad reputation and not hold back with the positive rep points.
If you give away red cookies, then have the courage to post WHY!
What I advice against is a facevook-like "I like" but no "I dislike".

 

[Majestic]

I'm totally against a like and dislike option like FB, there is a mod out there for it but I have never installed it. This is a community forum not a personal blog/social media site. So as long as I am a Admin and have a say in the running of this site I am confidently say we won't have one. To me it feels lazy plus the Rep system is a better alternative as people can say what they like about a person's post.

I want to try and get this new download package as it would allow everyone to be happy as we could set three layers of protection. The first layer would be you only need to post an introduction and maybe post a couple more times in the forums. The next level would be where it's currently at and the last would be where my files would go and anyone else who wishes higher protection. That way everyone could be happy and it gives our artist's more choice and the can state in their email to the files team which section they want them in. I can understand and relate to everyone's point of view and I do think we need something like this download system for the site to move forwards. If people knew they could access like 50% of our files by just joining and saying hi then it might encourage them to stick around after seeing what we have available. You know they got the basic stuff but there is just as good stuff around the corner if they participate and get to know us and show us they are good upstanding folk.

All posts have valid points in this thread and I really want people to know I'm not a snob, a elitism arrogant person. I am just trying to do what is best. Just like a boss in an organization at the end of the day if someone doesn't like something, more often that not the guy in charge is the person who gets the brunt of the flak and complaints and sometimes even insults like I have gotten more than a few times since starting this site. I really only try and do what is best, I think part of this plus my own real life issues is what changed me last year, turned me into a grumpy bugger. I'm more then ever open to compromise and lets hope we can get some money together and get this new system in down the road.

A new poll and thread has been created to help see what if any changes need to be made.
http://www.msfc.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=4517

The discussion can be continued there and so this thread has been closed to avoid confusion with two parallel running discussions.