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Babylon 5 vs DS9

Majestic

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Astarte said:
Both had their good points but, which series did you prefer?

Babylon 5 as it was planned out, not rushed like DS9.

I think it is a joke how the creators of DS9 had the Federation losing the war with the Dominion when the Breen entered the war then 5 episodes later they had forced the Dominion to surrender when the Federation arrived in the Cardassian system. (Where did all the other Dominion territory go?
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The whole Dominion war was a joke personally, the entire series was rushed in one way or another.

Atlantis said:
Well seeing as DS9 was only made to make profit, using the copied ideas of Babylon 5, with a Star Trek label (something i will never like Berman, Piller, and Paramount for), i'll always stick with Babylon 5.

Every race is different. The characters have personalities, but show changes over the series. The storyline is a continuous one. There are loads of hints of storyline to come, and reflections of events past. It shows the good and bad side of every race, every government, and every individual. It shows the side of life you don't see on Star Trek (the courtroom, spacing, "Down Under").

I agree with you here.
 
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Masterjon911

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i agree aswell.
 

F-Bobby

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Ds9 is by far my favorite star trek series, but i totally aree with you guys that the b5 storyline flows much better then any star trek show. it was the only show where everyweek i was left hanging on the edge of my seat waiting to see what would happen next week. not liek ST where only at the end of a season you would get a cliff hanger, and even then sometimes you didnt.
 

Lord_Trekie

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Having only seen a handful of very spaced B5 episodes I found myself greatly confused about the show, but if a show causes me to become confused then it must have some watching value. Personnally I didn't like DS9 until the Dominion War broke out, though the s*$& the Defiant pulls out its bum is almost as bad as Voyager...
 

F-Bobby

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Lord_Trekie said:
Having only seen a handful of very spaced B5 episodes I found myself greatly confused about the show, but if a show causes me to become confused then it must have some watching value. Personnally I didn't like DS9 until the Dominion War broke out, though the s*$& the Defiant pulls out its bum is almost as bad as Voyager...

yeah B5 is definatly a show that you need to watch from beginning to end. im planning on buying all the seasons on dvd so i can finally sit down and see them all.

and what kida crap are you talkin about with the defiant? cause we all know voyager should have been destroyed 20 times over.
 

Lord_Trekie

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F-Bobby said:
yeah B5 is definatly a show that you need to watch from beginning to end. im planning on buying all the seasons on dvd so i can finally sit down and see them all.

and what kida crap are you talkin about with the defiant? cause we all know voyager should have been destroyed 20 times over.
Defiant shoulda been destryoed more than the once it actually did. Thats all I meant.
 
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TM150

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Thse guys het exited JK :lol2:


Well I have personally never look any B-5 Episode altrough I have pleyed some games, read osme history, I think that if I watch B-5 I will get a completly a better idea...

About the Defian and Voyager... well both history have their points, anyway in all the series the ships get destroyed in any way or another :thumbsup:
 

Majestic

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Admin Note: Keep the swearing/cursing down or approprate action may have to be taken. Personal opinions are accepted here but cursing and swearing is not.
 

CrazyFrog1903

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I personally could never get into B5. Seemed to me every time I checked to see what was new about it. There was a whole new commanding officer. I am sure it was a good series. I just never had the time to devote to it to fully understand or follow its storyline. As far as the Defiant and Voyager. They were storylines that showed ships are not always lost in what seem like impossible odds. If every ship or station was destroyed when it was against the odds. Then you never would have seen any experianced commanding officers in Star Trek. As they all would have died as Ensigns. From I could tell from all the series. It is not a matter of the quality of ship or station(but that does help sometimes). It matters more on the crew and commanding officers. Every Star Trek "major" ship was destroyed multiple times but b/c of a timeloop or spacial anamolly they changed history. So, back to the subject at hand. I believe DS9 is better then B5. It was the first Star Trek series to show that not only could the Federation defend itself but it could finish the job. Others talk about it but DS9 showed it. :thumbsup:
 
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Joelteon7

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^This being the peaceful Federation who suddenly got a mass of war-capable ships, eh?

Let's take it through, eh?

Babylon 5- First two series remain relatively calm, considering the situations anyhow. (Granted, the Narn/Centauri war at the end of S2)
DS9 - First two series remain relatively calm. Nothing at all happens, really.

B5 - Season 3 - An enemy appears who wants to conquer/destroy everything and happen to have been around for ages. They also get a nimble litle attack ship and call it the "Whitestar".
DS9 - Season 3 - An enemy appears who wants to conquer/destroy Humans and their allies who have also been around for ages. They get a nimble attack ship and call it the "Defiant".

Both series have the "good guys" losing, but then some force turns it around and they begin to fight back and win, not without their major, major loses.

Only with alliances with the other races were the enemies conquered.

Shadows- Extremely powerful. Took multiple ships to even damage one. Technology far and away above that of Humans and it's fellow races.
Dominion - Extremely powerful. Ships took extreme damage from their small ships. Didn't take too many to do a lot of damage. Technology wasfar and away above Federation and allies until their technology came into their hands.

Note: B5 was in production roughly 6 months before DS9

With that aside and getting you thinking, I have much preferred Babylon 5. Not everything goes right, alliances don't always hold. Goodies may turn to badies, planets get wiped out. Humans aren't damn near perfect and probably shouldn't even be in space to start with. Human nature was captured really well. Also, they had Commander Sinclair, who, let's be honest....would beat Sisko in any fight.

DS9 had fans to back it up. B5 came from nowhere and was something altogether more interesting. It was more "realistic", if such things could be said about Sci-Fi's.
 
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Kosh Naranek

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I have to agree with Joelteon7 on this.

DS9 was a good show and all, but the B5 universe was, IMHO, much more well thought out. DS9 was plot device driven, B5 was story and character driven.

In DS9 the first Defiant was blown up just to show the Dominion's new alliance with the Breen. In B5, the first Whitestar was destroyed when it rammed into the capital city of Z'Ha'Dum, the Shadow homeworld, with two armed nukes.
 

EAS_Intrepid

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Maybe the storyplots iof both b5 and ds9 were similar, the all around was not.

The Federation was not short before being wiped out by the Klingons (as the Earth Alliance by the Minbari) and also the Federation supported Sisko, while Sheidan was forced to start a Civil War to "get his government back".


I once read, that after the Babylon 5 episode about the Battle of Coriana was released, the DS9 writers corrected ship loss numbers (increased them).
In the Coriana stalemate about a 40,000 ships or so took part, while the DS9 battle had just some 500 ships.

And Babylon 5 was definately a more political show, as the new BSG is. It had certain message, that would be "Everyone could do something about the situation at hand."
 

Majestic

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Well done Joel. :clap:

I also knew something was fishy about a few things betweens the shows being the same. DS9 was like a yo yo, jumping from one spot to another, while Babylon 5 has views from the future as Kosh has said it was very well layed out with the storyline.

Babylon 5 will always step on DS9 in this persons opinion as it was by far a much better science fiction show all round.
 
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Kosh Naranek

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There's also the fact that the creators of B5 went to Paramount with the rough draft of the B5 'bible' and were turned down. Apparently Paramount kept at least one copy and, according to what I hear, used it while DS9 was being created.
 

Syf

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Personally, I will not compare the 2. Trek is trek, and B5 is B5. Both great shows in their own right.:D
 
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Joelteon7

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Syf said:
Personally, I will not compare the 2. Trek is trek, and B5 is B5. Both great shows in their own right.:D

Oh, granted they're both good. DS9 had some cracking episodes, "The Sound of Her Voice" for one, the one where a sole survivor of a crashed ship calls out to the Defiant, but there's a time thingy and it turns out she was really dead (don't ask...).

Generally though, B5 just had better quality episodes. The worse episodes of B5 were comparable to the better DS9 ones I think. In terms of fleet combat, well, heck, B5 really does win. Nothing like telepaths holding back a single Shadow Battlecrab whilst an entire fleet tries to take it out. :)
 
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TM150

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*whisper* I sawed that episode some time ago is very cool, as well there is one very cool but of Voy were the Voyager get trapped on the atmosphere of a planet but the planet was like "distorsioned" on time meaning that 1 sec on Voy time was like 1 week in their world a very cool episode I love the final :clap: Anyway the offtopic I personaly never sawed B-5 (until I think that it is around on a channel, but on midnight :p )
 

EAS_Intrepid

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Joelteon7 said:
Generally though, B5 just had better quality episodes. The worse episodes of DS9 were comparable to the better DS9 ones I think. In terms of fleet combat, well, heck, B5 really does win. Nothing like telepaths holding back a single Shadow Battlecrab whilst an entire fleet tries to take it out. :)

Or four Earthforce destroyers battling around Babylon 5.
 
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Dark_Saberous

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b5 or ds9

Personaly i love the B5 series over the TNG DS9 and VOY. B5 caputred so much about human nature, greed, conspiricies and all the stuff the makes us, us really well, were star trek was this happy go luck show, i think in the intire st sagas i believe there was only 5 shows that showed true human nature and i think the most was in ds9.
Technology wise B5 hands down, i mean look at the shadows and vorlons. it took a compined power of almost every majior race except for earth to just stop them. they didn't defeat, they talked them into leaving. the tech was awesome in the stroy line the most advanced races where the vorlons and shadows, no one could touch them of the younger races untill the united there forces, but amoung the other races similar in tech the minbari was next on the list. the kicked EF butt. were in startrek the only two advanced races were the borg and spieces 8472, every race was to simialar to eachother compared to B5 were every race had an almost unique tech. the story line to b5 was by far better then ds9 .i have alot of b5 tapes on vhs will be getting the dvds soon. but for plot holes hands down star treck won that. star trek has more plot holes then a cheese grader. and rushed the series was the dominion war. one day the kling fed alliance is winning the next day there lossing then the next episode there invading cardasia, i mean what the hell people, i will have to say watching the battles where cool but there wasn't enought of them. then look at sisco the hole prophet thing. where he was concevied for them. cooff!!! ripp off!! on star wars a little. might as well made him a Q. but to finish B5 hands down cuz Ds9 was poorly thought out and executed. hey Majestic, EAS_Intrepid this is Darth Saberous from A2 files, great site you guys have here

Please use capital letters and paragraphs when writing posts, makes them much easier to read. - Majestic
 
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Majestic

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Babylon 5 hands down, no comparison when compared to DS9. DS9 after all was the worst Star Trek series.
 

EAS_Intrepid

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Majestic said:
Babylon 5 hands down, no comparison when compared to DS9. DS9 after all was the worst Star Trek series.

:naughty: Nope, that was Voyager. At least DS9 had a good-looking Jadzia Dax. It just missed MACOs.

Babylon 5: Earthforce Marine Corps as seen in GROPOS.

And: Ivanova is GOD.
 

Majestic

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EAS_Intrepid said:
:naughty: Nope, that was Voyager.

I pefered Voyager heaps over DS9. :p ;)

But thats not the topic now is it, its DS9 Vs B5 and we all know by reading the above posts which one was the better series. ;)
 

Rodglas

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I'd actually hold DS9 as some of the very best of Trek, it had some of the best written human drama of any of the trek series, some of the best characters (O'brian, Sisco, Dax) and it actually got a chance to develop its villians.

DS9's weakness was in its ability to go on tangent that was to TNG treklike in certain episodes.

Babylon 5 had a better over all story but weaker acting through much of the first 2 seasons. The Shadow War was far more interesting and better done then the Dominion War was. I think the Defiant is has a higher "coolness factor" then the Whitestar.

B5 is grounded more in 'real' science, rotating sections for gravity, realistic starship physics, while all trek has devolved into a technobabble fest and tends to use more high conceptual science.

I've always loved Star Trek, I have watched and will watch any trek on TV, but B5 is simply for what it is a better series.

Rod
 
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Kosh Naranek

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I've recently come across 9 parts of a 10 part (#10 isn't written yet) of a B5 meets DS9 fan fic. If its permissible, I would be glad to post what I've got.
 

Majestic

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Sure, it should be an interesting ready. There is also a new fan fiction section, pretty empty at the moment, just got my pretty bad Slider Fan Fiction so we need some more work in there. ;)
 

Syf

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I know I'll be reading it if and when you post it.:thumbsup:
 
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Muad'Dib

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This is just my opinion,

Babylon 5, I feel, was some of the finest caliber sci-fi ever created. I hadn't given the show a chance, always thought the Centauri's haircut was stupid so I misjudged the show one simplistic thoughts like that. One night while Season 3 was new, I caught a rerun at 2:00 am, the episode was A Distant Star; where the EAS Cortez is lost in Hyperspace so they send the Starfuries on a rescue mission. I was really enjoying the episode but when I saw the Shadow ship obliterate the Starfury commander, I was hooked instantly. The following night the then new episode was on so I tuned in, that episode was Severed Dreams, nuff said.

B5's episode arc from Seaon 1-4 were almost flawless, Season 5 had its weak ones but nothing too terrible. The character development was outstanding, the interweaving plot lines that spanned through the seasons were so finely crafted it literally forced me to watch every episode. The Shadows were some of the best villains I've ever seen, puppet masters that instigate wars from behind the scenes. The episode of the death of the Markab race was devastating, the Narn plight moved me as did G'Kar's speeches, anything Vorlon fascinated me, the dramatic fall of the Centauri because of their greed was tragic but fitting. Sleeping in Light was perhaps one of the most moving sci-fi episodes I've ever seen, the final 10 minutes gave me a lump in the throat. I was kinda disappointed Earth went the stereotypical villain route during the Civil War, I wanted to see Omegas and other Earth ships fighting the Shadows, but very little else to complain all in all, I love this show and was on the same track with what little Crusade was allowed to have. I really hope the Lost Tales eventually feature closure to the Excalibur and the Dra'kh war.

I can't stand DS9. That is a million miles from where I began with that show. I love Sisko, really wish he'd been captain someplace else. Love Dax (Mainly Terry but Nicole's fine, her character just wasn't really interesting to me) and O'Brien because he was a TNG alumn. The Defiant was cool, though it always annoyed me how when the protagonists where in there or a Runabout they could take a merciless pounding with little damage while any other cap ships were taken out with 2 shots.

That said, DS9 is the show that made me hate Worf. I liked him in TNG but DS9 ruined the character for me. Odo was back and forth, Quark was mildly entertaining but very annoying, Jake Sisko was useless, and Christ I wanted Rom dead. I tried to get back into the show when the Dominion story began but they ultimately ruined that for me too. I was bored to death with anything involving the prophets and pa'raiths or whatever they were called, and the Founders got on my nerves as much as Weyoun.

There were some episodes that were gems; Sacrifice of Angels, Paradise Lost, Siege of outpost ???, Valiant, that episode where the Romulan Senator is assassinated to convince the Romulans to enter the war and the 'tribbles' episode. But for every 1 episode like those I mentioned, I'd get six of Holodeck mobsters threatening the holographic lounge singer.

God, in one episode they showed the casulties of the Dominion War being posted every Friday, the death count was thousands per week. But in the base at the forefront of the war, the keepers of the only means of the enemy receiving reinforcements, the most strategically important location in the war with so many dying on a daily basis; well have to go play baseball against a ship filled with Vulcans. Man I can't stand DS9.

I've watched all Trek shows, save for Enterprise, and DS9 ranks as the absolute worst for me. But admittedly I'm more interested in the movies of TMP; ST 2 and 6 were just brilliant. From the shows, I liked TNG and Voyager eventually grew on me, their ratio of good shows over bad ones was much higher per capita. But DS9 was the opposite for me.

My two cents for what they're worth.
 

Majestic

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I have to say very well said Muad'Dib.

I too think Babylon 5 has the best story arc and how things that happen in season 4 or 5 actually appeared in dreams etc in season 1 and 2. You sure saw some of the best episodes first, Severed Dreams is one of my favourite episodes of the series.

DS9 on the other hand, was like a yo-yo, they were all over the place, just look at how the Dominion war was handled. I think the writers followed Babylon 5 and tried to mimic it due to the ratings that B5 got at the time, hoping they could raise their own ratings. For example the Shadow war raised the rating of Babylon 5 so DS9 started the Dominion war. And don't get me started on it's conclusion, here we have the Breen join the war and it looks like the Federation are goners, then all of a sudden they have the power for a full scale invasion of the Dominion after the Dominion withdraws further into Cardassian territory.

I myself do occassionally watch DS9, I would like to see the earlier episode again, but in the grand sceme of things its at the low end of the favourite Star Trek list, Voyager is at the top for me.
 
K

Kosh Naranek

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I know I'll be reading it if and when you post it.:thumbsup:

Sure, it should be an interesting ready. There is also a new fan fiction section, pretty empty at the moment, just got my pretty bad Slider Fan Fiction so we need some more work in there. ;)

They are in PDF format. Best I can do is post the links to the originals. That alright?
 
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